Page 8 | DD has been removed

Flojoloco · 2024-03-06T00:24:53+00:00

DD is 15 with additional needs. Things have been getting progressively difficult. Today she told her social worker that I hit her and there is a bruise on her face so they removed her. There’s a strat meeting tomorrow and I’ve no idea if she’s coming home or not either way it’s a mess. I either lose my DD or she’s at home and I’m scared of her lies. She’s 5’8” and 14+ stone, she has massive temper tantrums/meltdowns and puts holes in doors etc. I have no doubt if I ever hit her she would paste me. She lives a charmed life but she’s not very happy at the moment and that’s impacting massively. I would never hit her. I’ve no idea where the bruise came from. If she bumped her head on something or deliberately smacked herself in her face. I haven’t seen her but the photo on SW phone didn’t look like a bruise, she just looked blotchy. Either way we need help.

Rosscameasdoody · 06/03/2024 11:07

Updownleftandright · 06/03/2024 10:45

This is incredibly ignorant.

This sort of behaviour can occur with children with additional needs and I can tell you from my own experience with my own five year old who has severe ASD and LD there is NO help. He is stuck in a mainstream school for fuck sake. And trust me, trying to get him in a specialist placement us taking up much of my free time. Does that sound like a functioning system to you? It is no wonder children are suffering. They are not getting help or respite and parents are exhausted.

Of course you just blame the parents. Because it is far easier than actually engaging your brain and thinking of a solution or at least trying to understand a complex situation.

Show quote history

Many posters, including the one you responded to, are also failing to understand that many ND people tend to mask their condition in social situations such as school or work, and end up having a melt down at the end of the day as a result of the stress. In the case of children who mask in this way, parents tend to get the blame for the resulting ‘bad behaviour’. A double whammy in effect.

Firstsimnelcake · 06/03/2024 11:10

OP you might love your daughter (as in natural for a mother) but having her live with you is untenable - she is violent, assaults you, destroys your property and tells destroying lies about you and the family. She needs to be out of harm's way (harm to you as much as her). You can still have a relationship with her without her living under your roof and this way you are protected. Remember you have other children to consider.

Trinity65 · 06/03/2024 11:13

Rosscameasdoody · 06/03/2024 09:47

You appear to be very judgemental - not sure if this is entirely towards other posters or to the OP herself. No one is ‘wiping their hands’ of the child. The OP is trying her best to cope with what a lot of posters will recognise from their own experiences, as a ND condition, rendering her DD difficult and violent, and potentially capable of having her mother labelled as an abuser.

OP already knows there is a problem and it is with the child herself - if it was a simple matter of identifying the problems behind the behaviour and resolving them do you not think she would have done that by now ? OP has already said there is an assessment process ongoing for ADHD and ASD, but you seem to be ignoring that and blaming the OP for the ‘situation’ which, if her child is ND, is beyond her control. She’s only too aware of the problem. She’s seeking the professional help her child needs, and she’s posted here for advice. She doesn’t need posters putting the boot in and stating the obvious.

Show quote history

Well Said

Spanglemum75 · 06/03/2024 11:16

You have to reiterate that you cannot have her home full time because of challenging behaviour and child to parent violence.

You cannot meet her needs and you can't cope any more. A residential school wasn't prepared to take her. This is not insignificant challenge.

Also, when you have time, look at their procedures. This doesn't sound right to me.

Of course they want to send her home. It is the cheapest option.

Good luck.

SummerFeverVenice · 06/03/2024 11:16

I would also go see your DD, wherever she is, as she must be an emotional ball of stress and anxiety of not understanding what is happening to her. The SW said they allow supervised contact rn, so at least do that.

Wasacarer · 06/03/2024 11:19

We had residents that told day centre staff we pushed them downstairs, all staff had a fight and the police were called, one resident had had a miscarriage and we put her out of the house, a mysterious man turned up at the house with flowers and kissed the resident …… probably all said for attention but of course each had to be investigated.
I think if your dd returns to you you’ll have to have indoor cameras but not sure SS will agree to that.
youre not the first parent this has happened to, they will have heard this before.

Erdinger · 06/03/2024 11:24

I don’t have any concrete advice to give you but just wanted to say I’m very sorry for you. Please be honest with the social worker and remember that your life and feelings matter x

Zyq · 06/03/2024 11:26

You really need legal advice from solicitors specialising in child care law, social care and education law, e.g. Irwin Mitchell, Sinclairslaw, Simpson Millar. I suggest you contact them ASAP, and also ask about the possibility of getting legal aid in your own and/or your daughter's names.

Myopicglass · 06/03/2024 11:27

I recommend you write down every conversation with every individual. Date, time, who you spoke to, if they called you or you called them. Every message left. Then I would email a bullet point list follow up after every meeting to the person.

People lie less when you write it down in front of them and refer back to your old notes.

Audit trail at all times.

Withinthesewalls · 06/03/2024 11:27

SummerFeverVenice · 06/03/2024 10:18

Not any organism lol, you have vastly over generalised there as there are plenty of organisms that have no consciousness, and many more that cannot socialise.

Repeating actions to get a desired consequence requires the person to understand consequences. Not everyone does when it comes to social interactions which is a VERY COMMON disability amongst autistic children and adults.

Yes they can understand fire=hot=get burn= don’t touch fire.
But social interactions of how not to be rude and how to control your emotions in a socially acceptable way is an extremely complex cascade of understanding consequences which does require awareness and higher thinking.

Edited

Show quote history

They can’t all understand even ‘touch hot thing = burn = pain= don’t do it again’, never mind understand complex social interactions.

Rosscameasdoody · 06/03/2024 11:28

Lougle · 06/03/2024 09:58

DD1 is an adult and has a SW. She is currently under the Independent Futures service until her plan is stable, then she'll transfer to the Adult Learning Disability team.

Show quote history

If only that provision were widely available. My DB has a son with ASD and ADHD. He and my SiL exhausted themselves trying to access services for him and once he reached 18 all support was cut. He’s very bright, started Uni last year and is even having difficulty accessing special provision meant for students like himself.

Sameagainagain567 · 06/03/2024 11:32

Fruitystones · 06/03/2024 10:43

It's not that simple.

OP has disclosed that her daughter does not recognise consequences.

The difficulty with children with neurodivergent conditions, learning difficulties and/or learning disabilities is that negative behaviours are usually a response to an unmet need. People with Autism, ADHD, PDA and similar conditions are often in a permanent state of fight or flight due to the fact their brains cannot filter out excess information leading to a near permanent state of overwhelm and anxiety.

They cannot necessarily communicate what need is unmet, and they often cannot control violent outbursts because it is not misbehaviour, it's distressed and dysregulated behaviour, and even when a child has a decent level of understanding, it can take years to identify the triggers and teach a child to remove themselves or develop different coping mechanisms.

When it comes to behaviour such as lying, children with these conditions are often rigid and literal thinkers so will apply the consequence given in one social story or one social situation to all situations. They often can't recognise the depth of consequences can run either, due to a combination of rigid thinking and lower social and/or cognitive understanding.

For example:
-Parent says the family is going out to dinner after school
-The child is filled with anxiety because this is a change to routine

The child cannot verbalise this anxiety they just know they want to get away from the change in routine
The child remembers a social story that said that if a friend hits them, they should stay away from the friend.
The child lies to a teacher that parent has hit them because if parent has to stay away for the rest of the day, they get to avoid the change in routine.
The child is then told they can't live with parent at the moment because parent hit them
Child remembers a social story, explaining that lying isn't good behaviour and can get people in trouble and make people not want to talk to them
Child is scared of this happening so they double down on the lie.

-Childs needs are unmet because they are in an unfamiliar situation and feel unsafe

cycle repeats itself

It's really difficult, and removing the child from the home isn't necessarily the best answer. Nor is it usually attainable due to the state of children's services around the country.

I really hope disability services step up and give you the support you need OP.

Edited

Show quote history

This! A million times! I’ve NC for this post, but this word for word was basically what happens to us and my DD.

We’ve had SS involvement, investigations the lot. It has been horrific and I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. I just wanted to say to the OP that you are not alone. Stand your ground with SS and others. They will try to write the narrative that you are to blame. You are not to blame for this.

Nearly 12 months later we are still getting over the wreckage of it all. My DD is now in therapy which is helping, but it is long road.

Much strength OP. I will be thinking of you x

Withinthesewalls · 06/03/2024 11:39

Flojoloco · 06/03/2024 10:50

I told the SW I was abused every day. I asked them where was their duty of care to DS when he was a child and being emotionally abused?
I told them I don’t feel safe but she just responded with you have PR, you are her mum, you have to take her back.

Isn’t your son at university now? They won’t take your daughter into care because she used to have a sibling living at home.

Im sorry so many posters gave you the impression that this happening would somehow solve all your problems and services would just sweep in and take over.

Do you have money for private therapy for her and family therapy?

Have you fully explored everything the council and charities offer in your area? Some areas do offer free counselling/family support/carer support services.

Are you in any online support networks? They can be useful if only for talking to people that are in the same situation, but also for signposting to things you might not have thought of.

You have to keep on making as much fuss as possible, going back to services again and again- a solicitor might be useful if you can afford it.

laveritable · 06/03/2024 11:41

You have to be strong! Tough love!
My 15 year old once threatened to move out to her dad's ( I made it VERY clear she would not be welcomed back). That was 10 years ago and she still lives with me and we are good!

DotAndCarryOne2 · 06/03/2024 11:41

determinedtomakethiswork · 06/03/2024 09:28

She will show her true colours soon enough and they will speak to the school of course who will tell them what she's like. You can't live in fear of going to prison because your daughter is lying about you. I feel for the foster parent who has to deal with her because she'll face the same accusations in time. I think you should be absolutely honest with the social workers and explain exactly what she's like and tell them that she is playing them.

Jesus wept !! The level of ignorance here is breathtaking. What do you mean ‘true colours’ ? Do you have any conception of what’s happening here ? OP’s DD’s behavioural difficulties are as a result of a neurodiverse condition. Until she gets a proper diagnosis and support, she will continue to have needs which are not being met - through absolutely no fault of her own, or her mothers’. She’s not ‘playing’ anyone. Perhaps go away and educate yourself about these conditions before posting on a subject you clearly know nothing about.

drspouse · 06/03/2024 11:41

@SummerFeverVenice there as there are plenty of organisms that have no consciousness,

While not wishing to place the OP's DD in the same box as invertebrates, ALL animals experience reward which makes them feel good. Positive and negative attention can be rewarding.
You might like to have a read of this. You really just need the abstract.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4926782/

Reward from bugs to bipeds: a comparative approach to understanding how reward circuits function

In a complex environment, animals learn from their responses to stimuli and events. Appropriate response to reward and punishment can promote survival, reproduction and increase evolutionary fitness. Interestingly, the neural processes underlying these...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4926782

BlackeyedSusan · 06/03/2024 11:42

Her DD constantly experiences consequences, but her distress comes from the fact that she cannot understand that what she is experiencing is a consequence of her actions. So to her, any negative consequence is out of the blue, unexplained persecution or anger directed at her.

Thanks. This explains our situation this morning...

drspouse · 06/03/2024 11:43

@DotAndCarryOne2 No, she isn't "playing" anyone, but experiencing something rewarding (attention) for something that isn't helpful (reporting her mother has hurt her) is going to increase the frequency of that behaviour, it doesn't mean she's doing it on purpose, it's just how brains work.

MILTOBE · 06/03/2024 11:43

@SummerFeverVenice Are you seriously suggesting that anyone who is ND is incapable of abuse?

commonground · 06/03/2024 11:43

Practically, they might just not have anywhere for her to go at the moment. Be prepared if they do find somewhere it could likely be very far away from you.

I'm sorry. It's really tough. Sometimes the loudest people get heard so I would echo pp and if you want intervention, keep on shouting.

BlackeyedSusan · 06/03/2024 11:44

@SummerFeverVenice

Sorry forgot to check user name before quoting you above..

Withinthesewalls · 06/03/2024 11:45

drspouse · 06/03/2024 11:41

@SummerFeverVenice there as there are plenty of organisms that have no consciousness,

While not wishing to place the OP's DD in the same box as invertebrates, ALL animals experience reward which makes them feel good. Positive and negative attention can be rewarding.
You might like to have a read of this. You really just need the abstract.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4926782/

That doesn’t mean they understand that ‘doing x = other people do y= I experience ‘reward’ through feeling good’…

Rosscameasdoody · 06/03/2024 11:45

laveritable · 06/03/2024 11:41

You have to be strong! Tough love!
My 15 year old once threatened to move out to her dad's ( I made it VERY clear she would not be welcomed back). That was 10 years ago and she still lives with me and we are good!

Did your 15 year old have a neuro-diverse condition ? Because if not, what we’re talking about here is not the same thing as the OP is experiencing. Tough love is pointless when you’re dealing with a child with a disability, the effects of which include having no concept of the consequences of one’s actions. If you read back in the thread, the effects of these conditions have been explained very well by posters with experience of them.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 06/03/2024 11:58

drspouse · 06/03/2024 11:43

@DotAndCarryOne2 No, she isn't "playing" anyone, but experiencing something rewarding (attention) for something that isn't helpful (reporting her mother has hurt her) is going to increase the frequency of that behaviour, it doesn't mean she's doing it on purpose, it's just how brains work.

I didn’t say she was doing it on purpose, quite the opposite. What you’re describing is the ‘instant gratification’ effect. That’s entirely different from actions and consequences. Absolutely she’s experiencing something rewarding for something unhelpful, but it’s entirely the immediate reward she’s concentrated on because she has no concept of the actual consequences of her actions - in this case possibly that her behaviour has escalated to the point where her family can no longer cope and she will likely no longer be able to live at home.

Checkeringin · 06/03/2024 12:03

Sameagainagain567 · 06/03/2024 11:32

This! A million times! I’ve NC for this post, but this word for word was basically what happens to us and my DD.

We’ve had SS involvement, investigations the lot. It has been horrific and I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. I just wanted to say to the OP that you are not alone. Stand your ground with SS and others. They will try to write the narrative that you are to blame. You are not to blame for this.

Nearly 12 months later we are still getting over the wreckage of it all. My DD is now in therapy which is helping, but it is long road.

Much strength OP. I will be thinking of you x

Show quote history

Yep, we've been there too with my eldest. It's incredibly traumatic. Thinking of you OP, you are most definitely not alone! ❤