DD has been removed

[Flojoloco]

DD is 15 with additional needs. Things have been getting progressively difficult. Today she told her social worker that I hit her and there is a bruise on her face so they removed her. There’s a strat meeting tomorrow and I’ve no idea if she’s coming home or not either way it’s a mess. I either lose my DD or she’s at home and I’m scared of her lies. She’s 5’8” and 14+ stone, she has massive temper tantrums/meltdowns and puts holes in doors etc. I have no doubt if I ever hit her she would paste me. She lives a charmed life but she’s not very happy at the moment and that’s impacting massively. I would never hit her. I’ve no idea where the bruise came from. If she bumped her head on something or deliberately smacked herself in her face. I haven’t seen her but the photo on SW phone didn’t look like a bruise, she just looked blotchy. Either way we need help.

1. yes, I would agree to the medical.
2. you need legal advice ASAP.

I can't imagine they want to press charges. They have to go through processes when a child says they have been abused. Definitely be very enthusiastic about a medical.Also, have you contacted the legal resources suggested higher up the thread? This is your chance to get some proper support in place but you need to know what rights you and your daughter might have.

I get why you have lost faith in SS but be careful not to cut off your nose to spite your face here.

This is the issue with posters piling in to say SS should do this, will do that, just refuse to have her back’ etc, when they don’t know what they are talking about.

Op was clearly expecting things to go one way (egged on by posts on here) which wasn’t going to happen in the way they said- so now she feels angry and confused instead of informed and empowered.

OP if you are not doing this already make sure you document every single interaction with everyone you have on this, SW, school, police, your DD. It will be important for you to have an evidence log.

Write down who said what, when, what was agreed and the outcomes.

You need to be seen to be working with SS. We saw a variety of them and in my experience the ones they parachute in after an event are much less understanding of the whole picture than the ones that you work with after their investigation. We had from the initial SS investigation visits a comment that this was very unusual. When you speak to others in this situation you realise it is actually not that unusual.

Seek legal advice and advice from charities that cover ND teens asap. The charity partners were fundamental to my sanity. They will help you and believe me, they’ve seen it all before.

Try if you can, and I know from experience this is hard, to not think of worst case scenarios right now.

Sending you much strength.

You need to be seen to be working with SS
That ship has sailed. All I’ve done is argue with SW all day.

For those asking why I’ve done a u-turn on the medical because SS are messing about and it seems now they are looking for evidence that it is a bruise otherwise they have nothing to base all this on. So my concern is if the medic confirms a bruise this will all escalate further whereas if they have no evidence then it’ll die down because DD can’t lie for long. She’s not very good at being consistent.
Though when I talked to her today it was as though she believed it herself.

@Flojoloco

The result of your refusing to let her be seen by a medical professional might be the prolonging of the whole investigation, though, plus the chance for the question to be asked as to why you wouldn't let it go ahead, allowing people to raise suspicions that you were concerned that something you wanted to keep concealed might come to light.

I don't think that your current approach is in your best interests, to be honest.

I think that it would be advisable to allow her to be seen by a medical professional.

It's really important now that you get in touch with Coram as I have previously suggested.

The question of what happens in respect of prosecution is not a matter for Children's Services but the Police/CPS.

100% this. It's an abusive relationship. It must be extremely distressing for you not to have your daughter there at home with you, but long term this could be a better option for both of you, perhaps she will start to learn about consequences -and when SW see what she's actually like, you'll get the support you so desperately need. I'm hoping it all works out for you in the end 🙏

I don't think there is any way to feel empowered in this situation. I don't think anyone really gets how SS try to bully people into providing care that they can't cope with until they've been there.

Ok, try to detach for a few mins from all the emotions involved in order for you to look at this differently……

I know this is your life, and emotions are running high but think of it as a game.

You need to learn how to play the SW game. First rule in game is SW could refer to Social Workers however I shall refer to them as silly wankers! It’s up to you how you want to think of their title.

Smile and nod at silly wanker, in your head you can think Feck off you SW but continue to smile and nod.

SW ask you to jump, you say how high whilst continuing smiling and nodding.

Keep calm, when SW ask you a question, take a minute to think what you want to answer (don’t say this) and what you will answer. That second or so of uncomfortable silence will unease them as they are expecting you to go ARGHHH and they will no longer know what your game plan is because at the moment, they have you sussed and they are setting you up to fail!

At the moment, SW and your daughter are in control, you need to try to regain back some control. You can start this process by being clever at playing their game.

It is very common practice for sw game plan to set you up to fail.

Choose your battles, you have nothing to fear/hide consent to medical.
Do not facilitate it, let Sw pick up daughter and you have an hour or so respite.

Good luck

I actually agree with you. Don't let them take her for a medical if its optional, because it's evidence. Who knows if she's been making marks on her body, to accuse you of. Does your daughter actually want to be moved to another family? Just wondering what her objective is? Feeling very sorry for you, during this difficult time.

Honestly OP let the medical take place.

I know things are so difficult but you've nothing to hide.

Who knows if she's been making marks on her body, to accuse you of.

Fair point.

You are getting some terrible advice on this thread, OP. Please take lyour own egal advice.

I tried to book the legal advice link but they have nothing this week and it’s £30 so I thought I’d wait until back end of today and then book it for Monday

@Flojoloco

Book it now rather than wait until the end of the day, just in case the early slots for next week get snapped up while you are waiting.

Seeking legal advice and educating yourself about how the system works is more productive than working on an uninformed idea of what ‘should’ be the case, or what you would like to be the case.

If the op was better informed she would know that requesting a medical and saying she doesn’t want her daughter back, only to change her mind and refuse a medical and try and make SS just go away- but at the same time requesting a meeting with all professionals- is really unhelpful to her situation.

She is creating a picture of an unstable person (especially when you throw in the shouting and swearing, and bringing up irrelevant stuff about adult children who don’t live at home), which will be a lot less effective in getting support than someone who is informed and consistent.

It is very distressing to live with a young person with disabilities who is herself in a profound state of distress, and communicating this in whatever ways she is able, given, developmentally, her social understanding and social interaction skills are likely to be significantly different to a typical young person of the same age.

Talking about 'learning about consequences' is plain ignorant if significant neurodevelopmental differences are in play. As many PPs have already said, it is quite possible cognition is not yet developed to the extent that cause and effect can be understood in this way.

This sort of judgemental commentary about a vulnerable young person with additional needs is profoundly unhelpful. ND young people can behave in destructive and aggressive ways towards care givers, and OP needs proper support and a long term solution that meets both their needs.

I'm not sure the tag 'abuser' is accurate or helpful. It serves to judge and suggests a level of intent that may not actually be present. Better to describe concerning behaviours, unsafe behaviours etc, and/or to describe the impact upon OP.

Calm heads are needed here. This is a serious real life situation not entertainment on the web. OP needs proper legal advice and to avoid long term unintended consequences.

Things like this are what makes it so difficult for people to navigate the system and work with services.

This level of paranoia and game playing will be totally transparent to all the professionals and will just waste time that could be better spent actually getting some support set up.

To be fair I do think legal advice is the best option here. I'd have thought that professional social workers would be used to dealing with distressed people and being able to de-escalate these sorts of situations. It shouldn't be down to a member of the public to know how to manage social services in order to get support.

Most parents love their children and want the best for them and when parent no longer feels able to have the child in their home I think that needs to be taken seriously.

Unfortunately social services won’t provide all the answers that posters here are so glibly telling the OP to expect. The SW has already told OP that she has the parental responsibility and must take her back. Until the assessment process for ASD/ADHD is complete, I don’t think much support is going to be forthcoming - even then provision is patchy and OP will likely have to fight for what they need. If OP sticks to her guns and refuses to have her back, the likelihood is that if there is no provision for supported living of some description, DD is likely to end up in hostel or B&B accommodation. That’s clearly not going to sit well with OP.

That’s the reality of the situation - those with complex needs need the most support and the resources are stretched. And if you read the thread properly you will realise that your comments about consequences are pointless. If DD has a neurodiverse condition she likely won’t be able to connect her actions with any negative consequences - all she sees are the ‘rewards’ to placate her. Negative consequences such as removal from the family home will likely escalate the behaviour because she won’t understand why she has been removed. The behavioural issues, if down to ASD/ADHD are as a result of unmet needs because of her disability.

OP couldn’t be clearer that her DD is in the process of assessment and it’s likely that she has ASD and ADHD. You clearly have absolutely no idea of the problems these kinds of ND conditions present. It’s been explained, in detail, ad nauseam that people with these conditions frequently have no concept of actions and consequences - cause and effect - because they have difficulties with cognition. It’s not a case of social services ‘seeing what she’s actually like’ or DD learning about consequences - her cognitive development may simply not allow that. You’re talking about punishment for bad behaviour without understanding that these behavioural issues are as a result of disability. You don’t punish disability, you treat and support it.

They do- they won’t have been upset or annoyed by the shouting, that is just a normal days work (it doesn’t start to get to you until you reach the point of knocking on the door only for someone to chuck a bucket of piss over your head from an upstairs window!)-

but if a parent is changing their mind about what they want from hour to hour, and shouting, swearing and being aggressive- and the issue they have is a teenager who is emotionally unstable, loud, angry and aggressive (and who claims that the parent has hit them)- then it’s building a picture where parenting could be a factor, and they will have to spend time unpicking that.

Is this a mum who is at the end of her rope with a ND kid who is aggressive and dangerous, and telling lies?

or, since the mum is chopping and changing, shouting, swearing and being aggressive- is this a poorly parented teen, who might be telling the truth about the woman standing here shouting at us having hit her?

Is this undiagnosed ND or the effects of trauma from an unstable environment? They can present very similarly. Is this the result of poor parenting? And if so to what degree? Does it meet threshold for intervention?

SW deal with so many parents who scream and shout at their children, who learn to scream and shout back. Parents who are aggressive and bullying to their children and then wonder why their children learn to be aggressive and bullying- it doesn’t help to paint yourself as one of those if, like the op says, she isn’t.

You’re talking about what ‘should’ happen, but I think it’s clear from this thread that in real life that’s rarely the case. From what the OP has said, the SW has taken inappropriate action and is now trying to backtrack. She clearly has little understanding of ND conditions or she wouldn’t be advising the OP that she has PR and must take DD back, regardless of the consequences. I think maybe appropriate legal advice and maybe representation might be a good thing - especially in light of the fact that DD is making accusations of abuse against the OP. Her belligerence towards the SW is understandable, but unhelpful and I think she needs a calm, fresh pair of eyes on the situation from someone experienced in the processes involved. The assessment of DD’s possible ND conditions is ongoing. You’d hope that once a diagnosis is in place things would improve, but unfortunately it’s likely that OP and DD have a long hard road ahead of them to get appropriate support in place.