To not apologise when I meant what I said?

[MotherOfOlafs]

MIL round for Sunday lunch last week, all very pleasant to start with. MIL always has a lot of comments about others appearances which we tend to ignore as rising to it just seems pointless. Until during lunch she told us about a woman she’d seen at a restaurant who had some facial hair. She then told us she’d taken a photo of this lady obviously without her knowledge and sent it to some friends who’d then ‘made some very funny comments’. She was laughing her head off while she was telling us this. To be perfectly honest it made me furious and I replied ‘I didn’t realise you were such a nasty bully MIL’.
The rest of the day was spent in silence pretty much. She now won’t speak to any of us (fine with me but DH is upset). He’s asked if I’ll consider apologising. I honestly don’t think I should, especially as this all went on in front of DD14 and I would never want her to think this behaviour is excusable.

IMO you could have worded it rather better, OP. ‘That was a horrible thing to do. I don’t find it in the least funny.’

Hmm, it’s just not bullying. And calling her a bully for it is pretty harsh. If you are bullied, by definition you know about it.

But, it is weird and unpleasant, and I think, in front of a 14 year old, you were right to challenge it. But, I think, more along the lines of ‘what is so funny about the appearance of a complete stranger’ would have been better.

That’s horrendous and a terrible example to your DD. You absolutely shouldn’t apologise. I’d also have a serious conversation with DD about your your MIL’s fixation on appearance is not something she should be accepting as thd norm.

She sounds like a top prize cow. She may very well be saying things about you behind your back (AND taking photos)! Well done on calling her out!

Bollocks to that, serves her right, nasty bugger!
Let her stew in her own juice, vile thing to do to someone.

This. I know it’s not the point, but thank you, @MotherOfOlafs . I have pale, pale skin, almost translucent since I got sick, and almost black body hair. It’s a nightmare. Every method of removal (chemical, wax, anything painful and sudden) now sets off yet another one of my horrific, two-day-long suicide headaches. And my ex would make comments in the past, pointing to the area under his nose and saying, “You need to take care of this.” It’s like, I know. I know it’s there. Every woman who has hair there knows it’s there. But sometimes, for various personal reasons (I’m busy dying here!), we can’t be fucked about it. That doesn’t mean we deserve to be bullied. (Also, um, derail a bit, but does anyone know if dermaplaning works? Sometimes, I’d like to get rid of it for me.)

In my family, comments like your MIL’s were seen as hilarious and ‘just banter’. I can’t even begin to describe the damage it did to my self-esteem and body image when I was growing up.

Good on you for saying something. Don’t back down.

This is the route I'd take too. I'd want the moral high ground and it doesn't come from name calling, but instead calling out behaviour in a thought out and levelled way. To say that it was rude to call her a bully but stand by that you were shocked at her behaviour and find it unacceptable really shows you to be the bigger and better person all around.

Absolutely fucking ridiculous comment.

I fell out with a friend for taking a photo surreptitiously of a girl about to eat a huge ice cream sundae and posting it on Facebook making a nasty comment about her being greedy. I called her out on it and she didn't like it, I got deleted and blocked, but I'd do it again its bulling and just nasty! So good for you OP if people don't call out this behavior then it will keep on

I think it would have been better to say that the behaviour was mean or inappropriate rather than calling her a nasty bully as that's name calling rather than calling the behaviour out, though I agree with your sentiment. It's quite hard to come back from inn a family and she probably felt shamed

I think you married into the wrong family.

she probably felt shamed

Good, she should.

I would have called her out but I wouldn't have called her a nasty bully. I'd have said something like "That's a very mean thing to do". By labelling her a nasty bully it's become very personal. By the way, she is a nasty bully of course but sometimes you have to be diplomatic in families.

Oh I know she does! Didn’t mention it as it wasn’t the point but after a loooong day hosting at xmas she saw me draining the dregs out of a bottle of wine (there was barely a mouthful left) and said ‘look at you with your hair all over the place drinking wine from the bottle! I’m going to take a photo to show my friends my DIL!’ And believe me it wasn’t meant in a friendly jokey way! Didn’t say anything in response as I couldn’t be arsed

In fairness, I don’t think it’s bullying behaviour either. I agree with @Iwasafool.

The Anti-Bullying Alliance agrees with the Oxford definition of bullying - namely that the target has to find it hurtful, and the behaviour must be repetitive. What your MIL did doesn’t meet this threshold.

Screenshots attached as proof.

However, your MIL is still vile.

MIL’s behaviour was malicious and spiteful, and bitchy.

But it quite literally doesn’t meet the dictionary definition of bullying by any agency.

Completely right to call out this type of behaviour in front of your DD, but a more accurate choice of words would have been preferable. It’s important that it’s clear to your DD what bullying is. It’s also important that we don’t label all types of unpleasant behaviour as “bullying” because otherwise it dilutes what is a very serious type of behaviour.

Even though it’s not bullying as the victim was blissfully unaware, your MIL has still behaved horribly and you shouldn’t back down.

I more or less agree with this, because I think you could have made the same point less aggressively - along the lines of, say, "That doesn't seem very kind, I'd be incredibly unhappy if someone did that to you or to me". She might still have taken offence, but she'd have rather less to make a fuss about, and maybe that would have struck home. As has been pointed out, telling someone they're a bully is never going to make them change their behaviour.

I believe what the OP said. If you think she hasn't been accurate maybe take it up with her. I'm not going to make things up to make the story suit me.

I agree with pps, that in the general sense of the word, it wasn’t bullying. It was ‘just’ sheer nastiness.

No, that is not true, and quite a stretch . The whole point, is about pointing out that her behaviour is wrong. Getting her to see that will not be achieved by her shutting down in response to name calling.

Also, um, derail a bit, but does anyone know if dermaplaning works? Sometimes, I’d like to get rid of it for me

It does work 😊 well it's not as effective as waxing but I can't tolerate wax anywhere on my face. I do it myself once or twice a month. Get a good tool and I just use a hot cloth then some Simple moisturiser after.
Sorry about your illness and I hope you are as well as you can be 💐

You did the right thing OP and don't apologise. Especially for your dd's sake. She needs to see her mum call out shitty, bullying behaviour.

100%

Please ask him how he would feel if this happened to his daughter. Please.

His mother is nasty and a bully.

Bullying can include ostracising and spreading rumours maliciously. The target may not know about these in the moment. They don't only become bullying behaviours when the target finds out. The woman might have been aware anyway. People are hardly subtle when gleefully taking the piss. Either way she was demonstrating to a child that it is great fun to ridicule someone's appearance. Possibly for a factor that's linked to a medical issue. That's promoting bullying and belittling behaviour.

YADNBU!!! As someone with PCOS (and facial hair that I have spent years trying to sort), thank you for calling her out on it. I got teased about it terribly at school.

FWIW, I care less about the facial hair now than I did as a teenager (maybe because I'm older, maybe because I've mostly got rid of the hair), but - even now - I'd be so upset if someone took a sneaky photo of me and then uploaded it to SM to have a laugh about it with friends. I have a mate who is well above average height, people stare and sometimes take photos. A family member has physical disabilities, another friend has prominent birthmarks to their face, another friend is morbidly obese. We're not freak shows out and about for strangers to laugh at, comment on or take photos of.

Your MIL's behaviour is also bad as she has talked about shaming another person (for their appearance) in front of your DD. Talk about giving the kid a complex or worry that if SHE doesn't look "perfect", then will MIL do similar to her. OR would she cause DD to start to think whether this sort of behaviour is acceptable or appropriate or usual amongst adults.

Stand your ground!