To wonder if DINKs will be more lonely when older?

[Aintbaint]

Ok, so hear me out. This isn’t an US v Them thread …
I have a lot of Double Income No Kids friends - for various reasons, mostly choice.
So for most career has been their main focus, followed by their partner… Most have been very financially comfortable, travelled a lot, able to afford holiday homes, successful work wise etc basically all the benefits of no kids!

But now we’re all in our late 40s and 50s and slowed down a bit, retired early, separated or divorced, Quite a few just seem to to have lost focus, seem a bit depressed or unhappy, and don’t have the same focal point that having kids can bring.
I stupidly thought that kids would get older and we’d have our independence back but obvs kids are always there in someways - you never stop worrying or thinking about them or doing stuff with them. So still that focal point in many ways and Indaynthat as someone who does have a FT job they like and hobbies…

YABU - of course DINKs are just as happy and not lonely etc

YANBU - it’s harder as you get older when it’s just you or you+partner and work isn’t as important or you retire

@MaybeWhoKnew

Yes, they are also the first with the hand out for money after the passing.

My fear of being alone in old age comes from seeing what became of them, my anger and resentment from the fact that they thought their money could be a down payment on me and others in the family stepping in to do what naturally would have been their children’s responsibility…. They were highly manipulative and controlling, throwing guilt on, one even had a log book of what they had contributed to their neice and family over the years….

Ultimately they expected their siblings family to step in and do everything because they paid for a few things and were leaving money.

The issue is with your families dynamics not people who are childless/childfree.

Don't project on to the CF because of your inability to walk away from manipulative family members.

This is hilarious, @Aintbaint
You’ve literally quoted my post, and then talked about things I never mentioned. I never mentioned a death “without pain, suffering, distress or discomfort”. I don’t know if that will be my fate, and I don’t spend much time worrying about it, but if that isn’t to be my fate, I can accept that.

I was explicitly clear (for the second time in the thread) that what I want for my death is quiet and solitude. I want to die alone.
I. Want.To. Die. Alone.
That is honestly more important to me than dying without pain or discomfort. I don’t expect you to understand that, but I do expect you to accept and believe that.

The thought of people sitting around my bed watching me in my final hours/moments is grotesque to me.

@KimberleyClark

Do you not foresee that you could get involved with other things, fostering, mentor, church, craft group…

There is a friend of our family, mid 60s cognitive issues, who has built up a support network via the church and also various sports they are involved in - they are seen as a positive person in the community who has given a lot and now there are very many people stepping up some contemporaries, some younger, one sibling, to provide support as it will be some time, if ever, before a care home is required.

@Robinni So basically all of the last however many pages have boiled down to you having felt undue pressure from manipulative childless elders and being resentful of it?

You’ve extrapolated from that that no childless person could ever manage in old age without doing what your relatives did, and therefore we should all be having kids to ensure that someone can be properly (rather than inappropriately) forced into having responsibility.

Christ. I mean, I’m a pretty jaded person but that’s a bit dark.

@ShufflingAlong

It was an inability to walk away from my grandmother’s much loved siblings, who regardless of their behaviour, were still suffering and vulnerable.

They had planned well to be independent always, but the simultaneous timing of their issues, nature of issues and much greater than anticipated age made it difficult.

@Robinni They were highly manipulative and controlling, throwing guilt on, one even had a log book of what they had contributed to their neice and family over the years….

I thought that would have been right up your street, given your transactional view of family relationships and responsibilities?

@sammylady37 OP loves a selective quote!

@fitzwilliamdarcy

I replied saying I did think DINKs will be more lonely in old age as that’s what I’ve seen with relatives and residents I’ve cared for.

Went down a bit of a rabbit hole regards my grandmother’s siblings in particular, probably because it is quite recent. And I do feel a level of trauma that the well-being of myself, my parents, my children was impacted by them enmasse deciding not to have children and imposing a huge burden of care upon the family.

I worry about a friend now who has a single child, with two sets of DINKs and a maiden aunt in the family.

Maybe I’m being too honest!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/assisted-dying-france-macron-bill-b2510577.html

Right on cue. So far there isn't a provision for Alzheimers but hopefully in future people might have the opportunity to make advance directives. And guess which country we were anyway planning on retiring to, so that's handy.

the situation of some siblings choices to not have a family impacted negatively on all - we could only be stretched so far.

So they should have had kids in order to save you a bit of extra work? Ffs. You really are a piece of work.

well thanks for that, I guess I’m thoroughly screwed because after 2 ivf attempts and 5 miscarriages I couldn’t birth my own servants. May as well end it all now while I can.

Don't worry. I expect there is an element of exaggeration going on. And if it did happen, then I like to think it was the childless persons revenge on such a bitchy and judgemental relative. I'm guessing they knew exactly what their family thoight of them.

Well frankly, if I was in the state these people appear to be in I would be in a care home, not struggling alone at home. I really don't understand why people would even want to stay at home when they are past coping with little help.

I'm an only child, and my parents didn't want me doing everything for them. My DM's decision was taken out of her hands, after a broken hip she went into care. My DF organised to buy himself an apartment attached to a care home and lived there for four years before his death. Other than doing a little bit of shopping I didn't have to do anything for him. When he died he had lots of hospital visitors from friends and church people - he had a much larger social circle than I have, and he was 89!

I know of a few people without families through my job. In these cases either someone from a church, or a social agency, has organised help or admittance to a care home.

That’s still taking the attitude that these people exist to be your unpaid servants.

I was just saying that as a gardener, in my experience gardeners are gentle, kind souls. I helped my clients with all sorts and it was never too much trouble as they were all lovely.

No, I don't have any idea about this situation.

I used to work in A&E. I met a lot of lonely elderly people with children and grandchildren who no longer lived nearby/in the UK, or who hardly ever visited. Having kids doesn't prevent loneliness, and it's a terrible reason to have them.

The strategies for avoiding loneliness are the same for people with children as for those without: make (and keep) friends; develop hobbies; do things you're passionate about and enjoy; and crucially - learn to love (not fear) being alone. Being alone is not the same as being lonely, but if you feel like it is, it will make life harder than it needs to be.

If you pin all of your desires to never be lonely on your kids, then at best you are setting yourself up for disappointment when they make choices that go against that desire; at worst, you will create resentment in them, and then your time with them will suffer.

@Robinni I worry about a friend now who has a single child, with two sets of DINKs and a maiden aunt in the family.

The horror, eh? Imagine being an unmarried woman, yuk. How selfish of her. 'Maiden aunt' is a horrible outdated misogynistic term btw.

This, 100%, much more articulate than I managed. ^

‘I want to die alone.’
Indeed. But it’s not always possible. I have a friend suffering terribly now with a disease that is robbing her of life, dignity, independence. She isn’t getting to choose her end unfortunately.
perhaps one day the law will evolve enough to allow people like her the choice.

I was just saying that as a gardener, in my experience gardeners are gentle, kind souls. I helped my clients with all sorts and it was never too much trouble as they were all lovely.

This is so true in my experience too. Two of my dearest friends have a little gardening business together and they are lovely to their elderly clients.

The hilarity continues. Another half-quote followed by ramblings on a point that wasn’t actually raised.

We’ve gone from how awful and lonely it must be for DINKs and how they’ll die alone to ‘well, nobody can choose how they die and you might have an illness that means there’ll be someone with you all the time. So there!!’ now, when I say that I’d like to die alone.

It seems when your original point was robustly refuted you’re throwing whatever you can think of at people now.

You just can’t admit that people have different views to you. What a way to live!

It seems when your original point was robustly refuted you’re throwing whatever you can think of at people now.

And it mostly seems to involve people pooing themselves.

@IloveAslan

We couldn’t get them placed in a care home. They were still able to cope to a certain extent with carers coming in and our support. It was only - in all instances - whenever there were catastrophic issues, such as major falls, that they were then assessed as in need of a care home place and we managed to get them on the list.

One of them was told to go to first care home available, but refused to move until the one of her choosing was available, so bed blocked in hospital for 4 weeks to attain her place.

In both instances money was no issue, it was the availability of a care home place.

Your Mum had a catastrophic incident with no prequel, your father was lucky enough to get into a fold type situation (all my relatives refused that).

I agree with you - the church is the main support if there is no family, have seen this with some of my parents friends without children and residents. But you need to have an association with them and usually to have contributed money or your time and help for some time. For instance one has been on missions for the church since 30s and attends weekly.

@daliesque

It was not a bit of extra work. It was exhausting and at times I was coping on a few hours sleep. My mother and grandmother were seriously ill and dying, I had young DC who needed me. And the additional responsibility took me and other nuclear family away from all of them. It really was not remotely fair.

They should have had a family or developed a support network for themselves rather than rely on one sibling to produce offspring and grandchildren to sort them all out.

I actually agree with a lot of what you’ve said and no doubt it’s true in some areas where families are more displaced from one another.

You are 100% on the money regarding strategies to keep connected.

I don’t think it is bad of me to want to still have some direct family members around me when elderly…. And to definitely not have random relatives I barely see called upon if there is an emergency.

I absolutely don’t want to enslave anyone or have them help with personal care… I’d just like to see them and have a bit of support if there’s a crisis. To not be as frightened and traumatised as I’ve seen others on their own. I still want close family. That’s it. 🤷‍♀️

@innerdesign

I am more concerned about my friend’s child who will have not only their elderly parents to worry about, but 5 elderly adults, round about the time they are mid 30s likely with young children to care for.