To wonder if DINKs will be more lonely when older?

[Aintbaint]

Ok, so hear me out. This isn’t an US v Them thread …
I have a lot of Double Income No Kids friends - for various reasons, mostly choice.
So for most career has been their main focus, followed by their partner… Most have been very financially comfortable, travelled a lot, able to afford holiday homes, successful work wise etc basically all the benefits of no kids!

But now we’re all in our late 40s and 50s and slowed down a bit, retired early, separated or divorced, Quite a few just seem to to have lost focus, seem a bit depressed or unhappy, and don’t have the same focal point that having kids can bring.
I stupidly thought that kids would get older and we’d have our independence back but obvs kids are always there in someways - you never stop worrying or thinking about them or doing stuff with them. So still that focal point in many ways and Indaynthat as someone who does have a FT job they like and hobbies…

YABU - of course DINKs are just as happy and not lonely etc

YANBU - it’s harder as you get older when it’s just you or you+partner and work isn’t as important or you retire

I would hate to be the child who had been birthed just to give care when I was older.

Yes some children do lots for their parents but at what cost to themselves. Also how many elderly are ignored despite having children.

I have only heard this argument from those with children. The CF amongst my age group all seem to understand the difficulties they may face when older and tend to put things into action like POA, downsizing, building pensions to pay for care etc.

Anyway, like a PP - I'm praying for euthanasia. I think it's inevitable given the falling global birth rate.

It's beyond me that people are worrying that we aren't having kids we don't want so that they can clean up our bodily functions... rather than asking whether it might be better to provide the option for us not to have to have anyone cleaning us up.

(This would also allow us childless folks to argue back against the "but my kids will be wiping your bum so you have to support parents in everything we do and want!" people. Double-win!)

Tbh, @ShufflingAlong most parents think that way too, it’s only a few who “expect” to be cared for. My in-laws have four children and have made provisions for when they can’t manage anymore; I help my Dad out but he also has various non-family supports in place and I’ll never be wiping his bottom. DH and I are the same, we expect our teens to fly the nest and spread their wings, not look after us.

Yes I am sure most don't expect and would be horrified to think of their DC doing personal care. My late DM had carers in to do her personal care and was very annoyed with one social worker who suggested that one of us should resign from our job (most likely me being female) and be her full time carer when she has terminal cancer. Fortunately she replied that was stupid as who would pay our bills to do that.

It does seem though that quite a few people like the OP think that you need DC to do this.

As a daughter I'd have hated beyond measure doing personal care for my parents. It would have meant such a changed relationship, a full reversal. I'm so glad I got to keep an intact parent-child relationship with them.

Look to be clear here.

I do not by choice want my children to do anything for me and I will do everything within my power to create an environment where I am as little of a burden as possible.

In the good times and bad I want to have a family as part of my life. Some of the relatives/residents ended up in this incredibly desperate cycle of depression, crying and regret as they were so lonely; I didn’t want that.

I agree.

I’m also much more concerned about my life than my death and I’d also rather be lonely on my death bed knowing it’s because chose not to have children rather than lonely because my children weren’t there for whatever reason.

Good to know I'm fucked in my old age. May as well give up now.

You don’t need to birth children to have a family as part of your life and you don’t necessarily have a family as part of your life if you’ve birthed children.

Your poor poor kids.

I have told my young adult kids to leave me to it when I am old. To even emigrate so they don’t have the temptation to help me in my old age.. Let’s hope that time is still some way off. I have to say my kids still seem to adore me and want to be around but things may change. And I never want to be an obligation.

I hate hate hate tending to my elderly parents even though they have no care needs yet. They were shit parents and I am going through the motions and resent every second. Because they assume and expect I will do my duty and I am. It’s awful that you are raising kids with that expectation of burden already.

That’s really interesting. My parents have really ‘embraced’ the old and sick role. Because they have adults kids who can be guilted into doing everything. They act far more helpless than they need to.

When I worked on a dementia ward, it would make me furious. When people had sons and daughters, it was always the daughters that picked up the slack and the sons were off the hook.

In the home environment, you wait…….!

My grandmother is 92 years old, very frail, has care needs and carers. Her adult children are in their 60s and they all work full-time. Every adult grandchild works too or has tiny children or doesn’t live near enough. Some of us are close by but some are a few hours away. Unfortunately, she needs to wear continence pads ‘just in case’. If she has a medical emergency, that’s different and someone would manage to leave work and be there. Where is this magic world where you can call your relatives up on tap for day to day care needs?

This thread has taken such a weird turn! Now it’s about having kids so you have carers in the future! Is that what people think when they have babies?!

I was very sick when I was about 27, in a coma for a while. I needed personal care, and absolutely refused any help from family members on that one. Actual professionals are better, thank you, and I maintained some level of dignity.

I have children and will not be expecting them to care for me or accepting it in the future. I just love them and like having them in my life. Some people don’t want children and wouldn’t enjoy it and therefore shouldn’t. Those people have full and fun lives too.

I wonder if this kind of thread is about people trying to make themselves feel superior and better about their lives. If you are truly happy with your decisions, you don’t feel the need to put anyone else down.

Some of these (a minority) of comments are so smug, patronising and/or naive. Having kids is no guarantee of a happy old age. There are so many variables and relationships go sour and people emigrate etc. Much better to invest in friendships and make other plans.

Suffocating dependency on adult kids pushes children away. I hope my kids don’t procreate with partners who want kids as an insurance policy against a lonely old age.

Freeing my kids from this expectation at their young ages (19/21) hopefully will enable them to plan their lives guilt-free.

It literally says it in the thread.

Maybe we'd better steal it between us @fitzwilliamdarcy, then at least we can go halves on the smelly bits.

I agree with that. Everyone I know who genuinely loves being a parent doesn’t have a problem with me being childfree and has never tried to convince me otherwise. Nearly everyone who complains endlessly or has said they wish they didn’t have children has tried to convince me to have them and said nasty things to me.

My friend is a regretful parent who doesn’t do that, she does say she’s envious but not in nasty way. She is in an online forum for regretful parents and she sometimes send me posts she sees that explain how she feels better than she can. She’s sent me two recently - one was a post from a woman who regrets having a child and she said her mother and two sister were always telling her to have children, it’s a love you’ve never had before, so much joy, you need children to be happy etc so she broke down to them and said how she was sorry she’d failed them motherhood was supposed to be amazing but she was miserable now she had a child and her mum said well I wanted lots of grandchildren and her sisters were laughing at her saying being a mum is shit and they were jealous of her and now she’s like them. The second was someone saying they hate being a dad and he always try’s to convince his friends to have children because he can’t cope with the jealousy of seeing them do things, go places and have things that he can’t.

If someone wants a child and has a child and is a good parent I’m thrilled for them, I’m always asking after everyone’s kids, buying presents awwwing at photos and babysitting etc, I don’t judge anyone for their choice to have children and I don’t associate with people who judge my choice not to.

@Claspsandgasps

As you might have gathered by the list of people I’ve cared for - my family are pretty much all dead and certainly will be all gone in the not too distant future. If I had siblings and neices and nephews etc maybe I wouldn’t have felt so strongly about having my own kids. And while I found no hardship in caring for parents and grandparents, I did find having to step up for aunts and uncles who’d chosen to not have children and having my life dominated by them exhausting. It was a step too far and beyond my responsibility.

@MaybeWhoKnew

I agree, it is largely the women who get lumped with it and it’s immeasurably unfair.

OT but I also often saw that it was the relatives who were involved the least,who were the ones who were most critical of the caregivers.

I have one nephew. DH has no niblings. DN will have enough to do sorting out his own parents and I have no wish to burden him any further. My good friends are mostly of the same age as me or a bit older. As for colleagues, most people will be long retired by the time I’m old.

If I had siblings and neices and nephews etc maybe I wouldn’t have felt so strongly about having my own kids. And while I found no hardship in caring for parents and grandparents, I did find having to step up for aunts and uncles who’d chosen to not have children and having my life dominated by them exhausting. It was a step too far and beyond my responsibility.

I'm going to assume you're now deliberately trying to make infertile women feel bad, for reasons best known to you.

@Tahinii

Ours had the continence pads too. I can attest they do not hold severe diarrhoea.

We had the scenario where one of us had to get up at 6am to go and get one set of relatives sorted and to organise building work (needed adaptations, stairlift etc… took 2 months). Then they’d go off to work, I would do the morning shift spending time with the other one for an hour or so in between carer calls. Then I’d go to work. First person would come back and check on the first relatives… then I would come have a late tea, try and do some normal stuff before checking on both. Then sleep before invariably the nighttime phone calls of confusion would begin because one had dementia.

This was about 18-24months before they one by one went into a care home following a catastrophic incident where care home couldn’t refuse to take them anymore. We didn’t get a lot of sleep.

We did it because there was no other choice, the care available was insufficient and we didn’t want the people who had loved and cared for us to suffer anymore than they had to when they were frightened, lonely, distressed and vulnerable.

@Claspsandgasps

This sounds absolutely mad.

I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t be happy for anyone else provided they are happy with their choices.

And actually I was incredibly proud and happy for my relatives who didn’t have kids… and largely they were resilient and self sufficient until late 80s/90s.

My fear of being alone in old age comes from seeing what became of them, my anger and resentment from the fact that they thought their money could be a down payment on me and others in the family stepping in to do what naturally would have been their children’s responsibility…. They were highly manipulative and controlling, throwing guilt on, one even had a log book of what they had contributed to their neice and family over the years….

Ultimately they expected their siblings family to step in and do everything because they paid for a few things and were leaving money.

My grandmother cared for us in childhood, brought up our parents. The great aunts/uncles threw a few quid here and there and thought this entitled them to the same care as grandmother - it didn’t.