Assigned Female at Birth - AFAB

[ShugarTits]

AIBU to get the actual rage every time I see this written down? Often in reputable sources.

Obviously this has come about due to people differentiating between gender and sex - I understand needing clarity between those two when talking to or questioning people.

but every single bloody time I read it I can only think of the horrific female infanticide statistics. AIBU to think ‘assigned female at birth’ is fucking offensive to women, as so many of us are killed at birth ONLY because we are female. Nobody assigned those infants a female sex, they didn’t just randomly pick half of the babies and murder them.

can’t we agree as a society to call out AFAB and AMAB as being horrific and change it? Happy to hear alternatives. Observed female/male at birth sounds reasonable to me if you need to specify birth sex vs gender.

If I went to a restaurant and there were loads of Christian’s eating in there and the request was made, of course I wouldn’t mind.

I don’t think people have a right to be angry about the NHS or any other organisation asking a pretty simple question.

You don’t have to respect the outcome just the viewpoint. All I am saying is to talk to people with more respect and you much more are likely to have your viewpoint heard and considered.

But I have no issue with people using AFAB or AMAB if they so wish

I also don’t believe in god but don’t go around shitting on people coming out of church

If people want to use inaccurate terms about themselves, that's fine.
It's the use on forms etc which is problematic, rather than simply asking for sex. It's somewhat akin to being asked which religion you belong to with no possibility of not having one.

The co-option of the phrase from its valid use for a small number of people with DSDs who were mistakenly 'assigned' the wrong sex at birth (probably vanishingly small number in developed countries now) shows the complete disregard for them. In those rare cases, the appropriate information is not the sex they were (mis)assigned at birth, but rather the actual sex subsequently identified.

Why is it problematic on forms?

I’m not saying that at all. I am saying to treat them with respect. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

Im sorry, but history proves you very wrong

Why is it problematic on forms?

The poster literally says it in the following sentence 🤯

Well quite! The phrase just sounds ridiculous. Like a group of midwives might say, ‘we’ve had a lot of boys today, let’s assign the next baby female!’ Or even like the babies are coming off some kind of factory production line!

I’ve never made any connection with infanticide, and while we’re being factually correct, killing a baby because it is female is not actually infanticide.

That is a valid point (the flat earthers bit). I suppose my argument centres around the fact that we are talking about something that is so intrinsic to a person and their sense of self rather than a belief outside of themselves. I don’t think I’m expressing that well but I do feel there is a difference. It’s almost that their experiences are self-reported I suppose.

I’m not discussing history. I’m suggesting a way forward.

They really did not

If it’s so rare for it to be an issue why kick up a stink

Some people’s arguments here are very odd

apparently AFAB on forms isn’t necessary because so few people align to that term

but in the next breath say how it shouldn’t be used on a form because a tiny portion of those who were misasigned at birth might have issues with the form.

either a small group of people matter or not

But that argument makes no sense in respect of babies being born.

Babies are born with a sex not a gender identity. Saying the sex is assigned rather than observed has nothing to do with the babies.

Every human has a sex which is observed and noted at birth.

And why would we try a way that has very little track record of working? Do you know a secret history doesn’t?

Im not interesting in sitting down and discussing with ‘sides’ anyway, I’m not sure many people are, they can tell themselves whatever lies they want, they’re entitled to their beliefs. My issue is with professional institutions adopting this ideological language.

I was referring to people who are transgender. That is, later in life their feelings of only having been assigned a gender at birth are so central to their being. I don’t necessarily disagree that observed fe/male at birth would be a bad thing instead but I’d be interested to hear trans people comment too.

It’s assigned SEX at birth, not gender, so how does that impact trans people, who largely accept sex and gender are different?

I'm with you OP and your reasoning is interesting.

For me, my reasoning is that it's ideological language thrust on 'disbelievers'. The earth is round, not flat, sex is observed, not assigned.

We know this language really has nothing to do with the rare occurences of difficulty in observing sex (although medical professionals can do a simple cheek swab now so no observation is needed). Of course it's to do with modern gender identity politics.

It's bollocks and I call it out on the forms by ticking 'other, then stating that myself or my children's sex was not assigned.

Keep resisting, once that Overtons Window gets moved, this shit will be normalized.

Well I would also argue that history shows us that arguments, battles, wars (whatever level of disagreement) never pan out well. So I don’t really understand why treating people decently is so displeasing to so many people.

Anyway I have to get back to work so I shall leave you all to your discussion. Hope everyone has a lovely day ☺️

So basically you think that it is right to pander to a minority rather than be accurate.

Even when you have seen the harms done to women and children as a result of society pandering to that minority?

As others have said they can believe what they want about themselves but forcing language on others and removing single sex spaces is harmful.

I can because for 99,9% of babies born in the first world it’s just so wrong and really misleading. I knew my babies were boys or girls at 11 weeks pregnant through testing of their dna fragments in my blood. That’s reality. Whatever they are is fixed. And this language gives people the idea it’s not, language matters.

My mistake I mistyped. Thanks for the correction.

I’d be interested if any of them objected to replacing the word “assigned” with observed instead. Because I can’t see why that isn’t a reasonable alternative.

Transgender people should stop trying to conflate sex and gender then and maybe we could all get along. Sex is fixed and no amount of ‘feeling’ can change that.

Just one final response before I go to be productive… I would counter argue - do you believe disabled people (a minority) should have their needs met? Do you believe Jewish people (a minority) should have their needs met? Do you believe black people (a minority in this country) should have their needs met? You clearly believe women and children should which I applaud. Just because someone is a minority doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be listened to and accommodated.

So I don’t really understand why treating people decently is so displeasing to so many people.

Pandering to trans ideology has led to -

Rapists in women's prisons.
Women and children being sexually assaulted in women's single sex spaces.
Women being displaced on sporting teams or beaten by males in sport.
Women not having single sex rape crisis care options.
Lesbians being called bigots for not accepting trans women in their dating pool.
Girls refusing school or to drink at school because boys have been in their toilet.
A woman raped on NHS single sex ward then gaslit by being told that was impossible because there was no man on the ward.
Religious minority women and sex assault victims / other vulnerable women withdrawing from society due to the fact that there are no longer single sex spaces.

This list is not exhaustive.

Changing the terminology in respect of the recording of the sex of babies born is part of the ideology that has led to these harms.

This is why it is displeasing to many.

Absolutely trans people should be accommodated. So should female people and sometimes that means we need to have a respectful conversation, and sometimes that means that something trans people would prefer won’t be possible (likewise with women).

The problem with AFAB is it completely disregards the feelings and needs of one group (natal women) in favour of the other, by pretending sex isn’t real or important.

Oh my god, are you seriously comparing things like wheelchair ramps which hurt no one and help someone access a supermarket for example, to some dipshit claiming their feelings are hurt by biological fact?! Well I guess schools better start teaching flat earth theory too then by that logic.