Assigned Female at Birth - AFAB

[ShugarTits]

AIBU to get the actual rage every time I see this written down? Often in reputable sources.

Obviously this has come about due to people differentiating between gender and sex - I understand needing clarity between those two when talking to or questioning people.

but every single bloody time I read it I can only think of the horrific female infanticide statistics. AIBU to think ‘assigned female at birth’ is fucking offensive to women, as so many of us are killed at birth ONLY because we are female. Nobody assigned those infants a female sex, they didn’t just randomly pick half of the babies and murder them.

can’t we agree as a society to call out AFAB and AMAB as being horrific and change it? Happy to hear alternatives. Observed female/male at birth sounds reasonable to me if you need to specify birth sex vs gender.

Ok that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. But I stand by my point, if you can’t have a calm and respectful discussion you won’t get anywhere with this. Whether it’s correct or not you will be labelled a transphobe and shut down. Have a measured discussion (and note I put blame on both sides here) and you’ll get much further with this.

Oh the irony. You are shutting down discussion by continually spouting 'you can't have a calm and respectful conversation'. Can't get any further with that chat.

And what's transphobia got to do with anything?

So then what’s the link to female infanticide

I didn't make that comment.

It’s bonkers. As soon as it is challenged, out come the tired old misconceptions ( 😜) about ‘intersex people’, because that’s the only ‘justification ‘ they can come up with. That it is based on very slender evidence just demonstrates the desperation.

Mind you, I have used it myself when referring to people who would prefer not to acknowledge their natal sex as an apparently inoffensive way of clarifying the biological reality as opposed to revised ‘gender’ , in legal and societally dilemmas.

But that is ‘courtesy’, not credence.

I am not respectful to an ideology that is inherently harmful.

Being kind and respectful harms women and children.

What you are trying to do is tell women to shut up and be respectful about something in society that is harmful to women and children. Why should we?
The 'other side' has no respect. They just think that women and children are acceptable collateral damage and call women who call this out bigots.

You are just proving my point

You're not really making any, apart from shutting down discussion and disputing biological reality.

It’s not a debate. Try being respectful yourself and don’t try to force women to pander to offensive nonsense. I’m not shouting anyone down by the way, if you can’t handle hearing womens opinions, this isn’t the website for you.

@OldManSign there is no debate to be had. It's like 2+2=4 and someone coming along and saying, is it though, can't we have a reasonable debate about it?

Eh no. 2+2=4. End of.

I’m not trying to have discussion so in no way intending to shut anything down. I just added an opinion and I don’t have more to add. I believe in respectful discussion on both sides of this debate. I mentioned transphobia only to say that if people continue to be so aggressive in their stance they will be labelled a transphobe and no discussion will be had. If you can be respectful you are much more likely to have people listen to you.

Yeh. Clouds. Violence against women. The same.

But you don’t seem able to hear my opinion? I am also a woman - can I not have a say?

It's like talking with flat earthers.

I don't see the point in being offended by it.
There are many nuanced areas of the clash between trans rights of inclusivity and women's rights to female only space. The only way to have calm helpful discussions about that is to meet each other respectfully and if the term AFAB helps some trans biologically female people to feel heard and therefore opens up the possibly for more nuanced discussion about far more important issues then fine.

I honestly think all the polarisation and toxicity around this subject is far more harmful then the term AFAB.
And it's funny to be talking about female people with actual problems like female infanticide whilst complaining about the term AFAB.

Oldman why do you think there must be respect on both sides?
Do you respect all liars because that's what those who claim all babies are assigned a sex at lbirth are, liars.
Being firm about facts is not disrespectful.

Your opinion seems to be to police other peoples options, nothing respectful about that. You haven’t bothered to ‘have your say’ on this topic, just on how we should speak.
Take your own advice.

"Funny" is absolutely the last word I would use about this.

That’s literally how you appear though

If seeing AFAB makes you think of dead babies maybe seek some professional help

You are ignoring though the need for accessible language and plain English

Do you believe sex is assigned at birth then? Do you think that’s literally what happens?

I’m not policing anyone’s opinions. I thought I’d been quite clear but I’ll clarify: I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and beliefs. What they’re not entitled to do is to be nasty and disrespectful to others for theirs. What I mean to say is, if both sides could sit down and discuss in a respectful way (note I say BOTH sides as I see horrible behaviour from both). Unfortunately, we aren’t at a stage at the moment where people can do this. I hope we reach this soon so proper discussion can be had to meet everyone’s needs.

Well no one here is being nasty, so you can go off duty now, mumsnet moderate their own boards.

This is nothing to do with ‘sides’, it’s about factual language.

Oldman how is stating the fact that something which is nonsense, nonsense nasty & disrespectful?

My point is that THEY believe it so it’s not a lie to them but it is to you. Therefore, the only way forward is respectful discussion that doesn’t shut down either party.

I understand that some people would prefer to use the term AFAB, does that mean it’s fair that wider society should also use it in case they ask someone who considers themselves AFAB?

I don’t wish to badger people who say they are AFAB - but when it’s written in the news or in medical questionnaires etc it upsets me.

It’s the choice of language. It’s only going to rile the other side up. If you can choose more respectful language then you will get many more people listening to your side.

So we are now at the point where a lie should be perpetuated because some people might be offended?

Even when there is clear indisputable evidence that going along with these lies actually harms women and children?