Assigned Female at Birth - AFAB

[ShugarTits]

AIBU to get the actual rage every time I see this written down? Often in reputable sources.

Obviously this has come about due to people differentiating between gender and sex - I understand needing clarity between those two when talking to or questioning people.

but every single bloody time I read it I can only think of the horrific female infanticide statistics. AIBU to think ‘assigned female at birth’ is fucking offensive to women, as so many of us are killed at birth ONLY because we are female. Nobody assigned those infants a female sex, they didn’t just randomly pick half of the babies and murder them.

can’t we agree as a society to call out AFAB and AMAB as being horrific and change it? Happy to hear alternatives. Observed female/male at birth sounds reasonable to me if you need to specify birth sex vs gender.

I hate it, but nothing to do with infanticide as the term AMAB is also used.
No-one ‘assigns’ sex, it’s seen/observed/noticed etc.
i prefer ‘biologically male/female’ if it has to be specified.

I can’t answer it unless I know why you’re offended

As it’s just a bit weird

Those who want to use AFAB have a reason to want to use it, women such as yourself don’t really have a logical reason to be offended by it

so I can’t really answer your question until I understand why you’re offended

Saying sex is assigned at birth is nonsense it's not an insult unless you find truth and facts insulting?

Why are you expecting liars to be respected & why are they the only ones in this "debate" you think deserve respect?

Why though? Biological fact is biological fact, and changing language and meaning is quite frankly nonsense and stupid. For what, so that a tiny minority isn't offended?

You must really struggle in December

I was alluding to the fact that a more neutral term may benefit both parties. All you’ve done is prove my point that some of you can’t actually have a reasonable discussion and consider both sides. YOU consider it a fact, others do not. You need to be respectful of their viewpoint to get anywhere with this. You don’t have to agree with them but you need to listen and stop being so needlessly aggressive with your tone.

You’re not making sense, are you actually saying you believe sex is assigned AT BIRTH? So you don’t think sex is determined at conception? You don’t believe doctors can tell you the sex of your baby before it’s born?

And obviously countries that kill baby girls aren’t female friendly, that’s the bloody point!

it’s just asking for someone to pick something different because it is understandably offensive.

observed X at birth still meets the objective that AXAB is striving for.

I didn’t say which side of the debate I was on did I? You’ve assumed based on my insistence on respect which to be honest is quite telling about you as a person. I see good debate on both sides and I also see horrendous transphobia and (I don’t know the correct word but) hate from the other side too. If BOTH sides could talk respectfully we’d be so much further along in resolving this issue.

Do you know what having given birth to two children who have a sex I don't give a fuck if I am now offending men who want to identify as something they are not and in the process demand access to women's single sex spaces.

I'm not very fucking calm when this is part of an ideology that enables pedophiles to access women's single sex spaces to sexually assault women and on arrest say 'but I'm a woman'.

Unless and until men who identify as women stop making unreasonable demands that harm women I think women need to be angry.

And vulnerable children, being put on pathways that lead to bodily harm rather than helped to understand that they are not assigned the wrong sex at birth. That also makes me fucking angry.

"if you don’t believe babies are assigned at birth how can you then be offended that babies are killed due to it?"

The belief here is that babies are assigned a sex at birth. The truth is that it is observed.
I was a midwife for over 18 years sex is observed & in the rare cases where sex is not obvious due to ambiguous genitals then further testing is done to determine the sex.

For the OP to claim AFAB has any relation to infanticide is just a bit silly

Especially as the countries where this is common place don’t tend to be understanding of those who want to use AFAB, or use alternate pronouns

Yep and I didn’t say I disagreed. Just that I’d like to see more respectful discussion. I completely respect your position on it and admit I nodded when I read it as it seemed reasonable. However, we need discussion from both sides.

@OldManSign what are you on about? I've not assumed anything about you, I don't care if you believe that to be fact or not and nowhere in my post do I refer to what you may, or may not believe. A fact is a fact, regardless of one's belief system. Get over yourself.

It literally IS a fact. Sex is determined at conception, that’s why you can have a scan before the baby is born to tell you it’s sex. Please tell me you know this? I don’t need to be respectful to the view that the earth is flat, or that the Illuminati run the world or that doctors decide your sex at birth. It’s nonsense.

You must really struggle in December

Why?

I don’t need to stretch! Do you know how COMMON it is for to kill female babies? They die every day.

Do you know how rare it is for a doctor to not know what sex a baby is so they need to assign them a sex?

The stretch is the term AFAB as being reasonable based on a ludicrously small number of births where it’s relevant.

So then what’s the link to female infanticide

If you don’t believe sex is assigned at birth, then why link it to poor babies that have been killed

its really quite abhorrent to try and link the two

Why do you think of dead babies when you see AFAB written down?

Might be worth digging more into that

as it’s a little weird

Ok that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. But I stand by my point, if you can’t have a calm and respectful discussion you won’t get anywhere with this. Whether it’s correct or not you will be labelled a transphobe and shut down. Have a measured discussion (and note I put blame on both sides here) and you’ll get much further with this.

I think you’ve missed her point.

Yanbu

What happened to plain English anyway
It’s inaccessible

Gender ideology language usually is

I have never stated I am one side of this debate or the other. I am simply saying that while it is fact to you they do not believe it is fact. That doesn’t mean to say you are wrong or vice versa it just means you’re not going to get anywhere shouting them down. Be respectful and you’ll get much further.

Oh no, I don’t think she has a point to miss

It’s very ‘old woman shouts at cloud’

You are just proving my point.