Assigned Female at Birth - AFAB

[ShugarTits]

AIBU to get the actual rage every time I see this written down? Often in reputable sources.

Obviously this has come about due to people differentiating between gender and sex - I understand needing clarity between those two when talking to or questioning people.

but every single bloody time I read it I can only think of the horrific female infanticide statistics. AIBU to think ‘assigned female at birth’ is fucking offensive to women, as so many of us are killed at birth ONLY because we are female. Nobody assigned those infants a female sex, they didn’t just randomly pick half of the babies and murder them.

can’t we agree as a society to call out AFAB and AMAB as being horrific and change it? Happy to hear alternatives. Observed female/male at birth sounds reasonable to me if you need to specify birth sex vs gender.

Ah, I remember when "no debate" was rightly criticised often on here. And now it's "there's no debate" "it's not up for debate".

Same people, different sides of the argument.

Anyway, going back to the OP, it's not "horrific". It's daft and a bit stupid.

Nope

But I have no issue with people using AFAB or AMAB if they so wish

I also don’t believe in god but don’t go around shitting on people coming out of church

My point is that THEY believe it so it’s not a lie to them but it is to you. Therefore, the only way forward is respectful discussion that doesn’t shut down either party.

Their belief does not make it fact so yes it's a lie, same way a flat farther belief won't actually make the earth is flat a fact.

So you think we should not state facts because it will destroy people's ideation... why is this ok to you?

Yes. You've got a bee in your bonnet about trans women. Stop thinking about it. It doesn't affect you.

But why does it upset you?

You being overly sensitive is the issue here

I didn’t say it should be perpetuated at all. I just mean to say that their reality and lived experience is just as valid as yours and worthy of being listened to. You could probably also argue that there’s indisputable evidence that trans people are harmed by our current language (I’d need to read up on that to have a solid argument). I’m not stating you are wrong or they are wrong, I just mean the current methods of talking about this are just not working and perhaps being more tactful would get people further.

What other word to describe nonsense would you suggest which is more respectful in your view?

I’m not saying that at all. I am saying to treat them with respect. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I really do believe there is some middle ground to be found with these issues. Unfortunately there are people on both sides who just can’t be respectful long enough to find it. The type of language I often see online is just alienating the other parties.

AFAB actually describes transmen not transwomen.

The point is that sex is innate. It is an objective reality which exists, independently of someone gender identity. There are consequences to someone’s sex - an absolute fuckton of them. Female infanticide is one example.

The reason AFAB is offensive is is implies sex isn’t an objective reality but a decision made by humans as to what sex someone is. It conflates sex and gender identity in the wider context of people trying to minimise the importance of sex in female oppression. OP’s point about infanticide is no one checks female babies gender identity before killing them.

Out of interest why can’t we use the phrase “born female” or “observed to be female” instead of “assigned female”? What would be your complaint about that?

I would just say I disagreed personally. I don’t need to give it a descriptor. If I called your strongly held views nonsense I’m sure you would get riled up. That’s all I’m pointing out is happening to people.

So if you know it’s inaccurate ideology, why do you take issue with people being annoyed at places like the NHS using it? Do you think people don’t have a right to be angry by misleading language coming from professional institutions?
The church isn’t forcing it’s language on medical institutions, it keeps itself within the church, just as this ideology should be doing. Would you be ok with, for example, having to pray and thank god in every restaurant before eating, to keep Christian’s happy?

So far "respect" has got us in yo a situation where women & girls have no access to single sex provisions, they like employment, are arrested and denied equal opportunity in sport and representation in politics. What about that should be respected?

Well then if that’s the case surely you’d be pushing for this movement.

As if people have to wait until a child determines their gender before being killed a few less might die.

That's like saying some people think the earth is round but others don't and we need to sit down and find a compromise around language to accommodate the beliefs of flat earthers. No, Sorry. Beliefs can be respected, sure, but that doesn't mean language that has developed from rigorous scientific study has to be adjusted to accommodate them.

This has got nothing to do with trans women. It’s nationwide terminology.

In fact, whenever I see anyone referring to themselves as AFAB/AMAB - it’s mostly in the context of trans men calling themselves AFAB.

My issue is with everyone else using the term assigned male/female at birth when they want to specify sex rather than gender.

Their reality is not real though.

I mean, no human can change sex.

Why should society change based on a persons perception of 'gender'? What even is gender? How does a man live as a woman if it is not to do with stereotypes of what he believes a woman is? Why should that give him the right to single sex spaces for women?

Why should his gender feelings trump the safety and dignity of women in single sex spaces?

And before you ask well what has this got to do with assigned female at birth? It has everything to do with it. It is all part of the same push to 'identity' based politics and the people it harms most are women and children. If you use this language you are perpetuating this belief and that does harm women and children.

Were the people who wanted this change to unscientific language, also being overly sensitive?

It's fine to say something is nonsensical when it is. Like I said previously, I don't care if a flat earther reeeaaallly believes the earth is flat. It's not.

If they get offended by that then that's on them. I don't care. We don't have to have a respectful, reasonable, polite, calm, lovely discussion about it. I'm not up for debating crazy beliefs.

If my beliefs are nonsense I would have to accept people saying so.
Why are people so scared of being honest?

Why not focus your anger on the actual issue, i.e. sex selective abortion or actual female infanticide. Who cares about some terminology.

So if the term AFAB offends 50% of the population then they should just suck it up?
This tiptoeing around language because a very small, vocal minority choose to ignore reality has turned into a proper shitshow.

Were the people who wanted this change to unscientific language, also being overly sensitive?

Exactly.

It doesn't affect you.

I think if the inaccessible gender based language was dropped that would be the case

Meant kindly but i honestly think if there was a sliding scale of problems with 10 being the most serious and 1 being really not serious then magazines printing the term AFAB is a 1. I just don't think it's anything worth getting upset over even when discussing trans v women's issues.