To refuse to travel at 20 weeks pregnant

[Kofifi]

I have been put forward to attend an important event for work in San Fransisco, when I will be 20 weeks pregnant. I find these events exhausting at the best of times and am really dreading the idea of doing it pregnant. Especially with the long travel (16hr) involved.

I was planning to tell work that I'm pregnant after my 12 week scan next week. And I ideally want to use it as a reason to say I don't want to do any long haul trips.

But everywhere I google it says there's no reason I can't travel at 20 weeks. And so I'm worried they'll make me go anyway.

Aibu to think I should be able to opt out?

For a lot of people, it can be incapacitating even without underlying conditions. Personally, pregnancy hits me like a truck and I genuinely find everyday tasks quite difficult! I’d never have managed a long flight at 20 weeks.

I think it's reasonable not to go as you are likely to need dalteparin (or similar) to reduce the risk of DVT as travel time is over 4hrs. You might not wish to take this medication in pregnancy.

Here's the local protocol I was shown when I was pregnant and was asking my midwife about holidays - page 41

https://www.nhstaysidecdn.scot.nhs.uk/NHSTaysideWeb/idcplg?IdcService=GET_SECURE_FILE&dDocName=DOCS_016312&Rendition=web&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&noSaveAs=1

As a few others have said - regardless of how far along you are/will be, how complicated your pregnancy is and how ill you might - you could not pay me to step foot in the US at any stage of pregnancy. Yes California is one of the more lenient states and still seems to allow women rights over their own bodies but it's just not worth it if something went wrong.

Are you not going to have to do the long haul trips when you return from maternity?

@Dutchairfryer

They do have to remove the risks, as quoted below:

"Where there are risks, the employer should take reasonable steps to remove them. For example, offering the employee different work or changing their hours.
The employer should suspend the employee on full payy_ if they cannot remove any risks. For example, offering suitable alternative work.",

and if they cannot remove the risks they should suspend the employer on full pay or, e.g. offer suitable alternative work.

If an pregnant employee was disciplined for refusing to take two 16hr flights in one week, she would have a strong solid case for discrimination - also from above legislation:

"It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of being pregnant"

Given that one of the risks listed is "work related stress" - if the risk assessment finds that the trip in question will cause OP to suffer from unnecessary work related stress, the employer is bound by law to remove that risk (or suspend OP on full pay, but that would be ridiculous when the OP presumably has her regular duties to be getting on with).

Ugh. This whole pregnancy is not an illness BS really grinds my gears.

Pregnancy is a gamble and very few know how they will feel during it. Just because some of you were lucky to have easy pregnancies or handle difficult ones doesn’t take away from the fact that it can be disabling, difficult, and incapacitating for other women.

Key term there is ‘reasonable’

either way, unless medically exempt the OP cannot just ‘refuse’ to travel for work.

Hopefully her employer isn’t a dick, but if so she can’t just refuse to do a contractual element of her job

How good is your workplace?

I took 6 weeks maternity leave with twins and took no adaptation to my working responsibilities because I didn't want to (and couldn't afford to). However, my then small-business employer was hugely supportive and would have been more than accommodating. If they can do that, I'm damn sure a good employer large enough to send staff on international trips can do so too!

If you were my staff I'd automatically check with you if you wanted/felt able to go and not give it a second's thought about what it said about your commitment to your career.

YANBU - I didn’t want to travel long haul or commute long hours during my pregnancy. Every pregnancy and every woman is different. Talk to your doctor. In my case, my obstetrician was very sympathetic and gave me a letter.
I don’t think you will be penalised for not going to San Fran. By the time you come back from Mat leave, no one will probably remember that.

She absolutely can. Any union worth their salt would back her up 100% on the matter. Firstly, as the OP has stated that other employees could carry out this particular trip, then it would not be classed as an unreasonable adjustment to replace her, and secondly it specifically says that if no reasonable adjustment can be made then the employee has to be given alternate work or be suspended on full pay. The "reasonable" is in relation to the adjustment, not the reason for it.

Either way, when risks are identified - higher risk of DVT in >4hrs travel (specifically during pg), work related stress (anxiety over access to emergency medical treatment, risk of exhaustion, etc), long working hours, take your pick, adjustments have to be made. In this case that adjustment would be the OP not making the journey. No workplace can force the OP to do this or threaten disciplinary action for it if she refuses based on her pregnant status.

Also, she is not "refusing to travel for work", she has already said she is happy to continue to do the short haul European trips. She is refusing this one long haul 16hr trip. And she has every right to in employment law.

Pregnancy isn't an excuse to use to not do your job. Its Pregnancy not illness.

As any HR professional will tell you, pregnancy is a reason to assess whether any part of an employee's role presents a specific risk and adjust where necessary/appropriate/reasonably practical.

If you suggested to an employee that they should go on a very attractive, very long haul work trip, and they said "thank you for the opportunity, but actually, I'm going to be 20 weeks pregnant at that point, I've had a terrible first trimester, and am not sure whether I'll be well enough to travel at that point, I'm also worried about DVT, and the fatigue from jet lag, so I'd really rather not go." Would you say:
A) "Sounds fair enough, I'll send Dave/Davina instead"
B) "You entitled baggage! Go or you're sacked!"
(hint, one of these answers will see you in a tribunal sharpish).

Her thread title is literally 'AIBU to refuse to travel at 20 weeks pregnant' 🤦‍♀️

@surreygirl1987

Yeah, and then she goes on to explain that the travel she is refusing is only the long haul trip to San Fran, and that she will be happy to continue doing the short haul European trips. So she is not actually "refusing to travel" - she is refusing one particular trip. Doesn't take much reading to figure that out, the devil's in the detail hey.

Just gobsmacked at people saying that you are being unreasonable- you are producing a human from scratch, no small job. Why should you put yourself at risk even if you think it a small one, never mind how bloody tiring pregnancy can be even when straightforward with no complications. Do what you think is best for you- no job or award will make up for having a complication (DVT, PE, a child born in the USA) that you could have avoided. Do what is right for you and your baby.

Have you actually read the OP?

Why don’t you just ask your employer instead of a billion mums, none of whom have an understanding of your pregnancy journey or what your life when your baby comes will look like.

You are facing change and you and your employer will both adapt. No one is indispensable, I’m sure they can find someone else and you have to accept the change when they do.

People move on, you’ll be knee deep in baby groups and primary school. It’s a new phase.

OP YANBU, I was asked to travel to Brazil when I was pregnant - Google managed to terrify me of a Zika risk and I asked not to go; my pregnancy was also high risk (twins) and I was very anxious about what I’d do if I’d needed a Dr on-site so far from home.
My boss was completely fine with it and as you say, these ‘gold ticket’ trips there were 3 people in the wings desperate to go in my place!! Absolutely ask the question, especially if you’re still willing to do the EU trips (I did too) it’s perfectly reasonable to ask to sit out the long haul ones for now.

Also, since returning to work I still avoid long haul or trips over 3 nights away because of childcare and it’s well respected. Hasn’t impeded my career at all (promoted twice since I went back, twins are now 4).
Best of luck!

I was fine at 20 weeks. I was fine at 21 weeks. By 24 weeks I had no baby.
It doesn't matter about facts or statistics if you are the one for whom your world falls apart. I know that being in a different country while losing your baby is one of the worst things a woman can suffer as I've been through this. I'm pregnant now and there is no way I would be leaving the country unless its completely unavoidable.

Furthermore I am fit, healthy, active, with an active career and at the moment at 9 weeks I'm nauseous every minute of the day, I'm exhausted, I'm dizzy every time I stand up and I'm out of breath just walking up the stairs so every pregnancy is different, every women is different, I cannot understand why as women we have an innate inability to be kind and compassionate and understanding of one another. This thread actually makes me despair.

Why snipe? She clearly said she would ask her employer once she passes the 12 week scan. Getting opinions on life matters is a pretty common thing to do on mumsnet .

It’s not a snipe, it’s a question..if I was sniping I would have said something complete different. My words..were aimed at why not just ask.

Well it sounded snippy, ‘ask your employer rather than a billion mums’, especially when she has already explained she will ask her employer. And it was not actually a question. But if that’s you not sniping and that’s just how you talk to people asking for advice then fair enough.

Talk to your doctor and see if they think it best that you don’t travel. You could get a medical note saying that you can’t travel.

Bit random, you didn’t hear me say it you read it.. and how you’re read it was incorrect. Is it snipping to say ask your Dr..as below..ask your employer is the same..

The answer is not with the billions of mums here..it’s in her HR office. Anything else is an opinion really, which she’s asked for, and got..but it doesn’t solve the problem because the answer is not here..be interested to know what they say. Good luck!