You're not the only mum who works full time...

[doyoulikeflowers]

Said my lovely, supportive husband today.

When I approached him about the fact that I feel like he makes me feel like I don't do enough housework / good enough housework.

I said in his tone, when he complains about the state of the house- I sense that he feels I'm the one who's falling short.

He didn't agree or disagree but told me I was once again nagging. I wasn't. I was just saying that I find it hard to keep up with everything.

I've barely slept an entire night for probably 3 - 4 weeks. My children have been unwell on and off for that time.

I've not been able to send them to nursery much either. This week, they were at home with me for 3 days whilst I tried to juggle work. Last week they were at home for 4 days. And on it goes.

My work is suffering hugely. I can't meet deadlines and I'm constantly under pressure.

Thankfully I work from home, but I'm not able to keep up.

I go to bed at 8 pm every night, as it's all so exhausting.

My H works in a demanding high pressure role and has no time off, no working from home time either. He leaves at 5:30 and comes back at 8:30 every day. He can't do much more to help around the house, because he's just not here.

However, I expect him to understand and not continuously complain about laundry not being done or not being able to find his clothes etc. or the general mess that children bring.

I loathe the weekends as we always end up having discussions and it's really getting me down. Unless I'm constantly clearing up and basically just shut up about it, he's not happy.

He's really upset me today by saying what he said. He always upsets me and then he says it's not a big deal and he didn't mean it. I feel like I spend a lot of time thinking of ways to make his life easier, but it doesn't work the other way. I think he thinks I'm just a bit rubbish.

Our kids are under 5. They go to nursery full time and I work full time from home. My job is pretty intense. It's all a lot. I'm a shell of former self.

He sounds awful OP

I was one of the people early on the thread saying get in more help - but now more info has emerged I think getting out of the marriage might be your best bet.

You are right though that you can’t take the kids off abroad without his say so - but would it be so bad to live here and not have to put up with him in your house?

Short term do get the cleaners in twice a week and have them take over laundry. Write a basic meal plan from M and S ready meals /pre-made stuff and make it his job to order that.

Speaking as someone awaiting ADHD diagnoses and with an insane job (but not little kids which makes all the difference) I would see if you can find an ADHD coach - you don’t have to tell him, but they would give you an hour a week to step back and think about your life, as well as some practical help.

Then you need to outsource even more. When me and my DH were working long hours and the kids were tiny nearly all of my salary went on outsourcing, it was only for a couple of years but it probably saved my marriage as we never argued about this sort of stuff.

I had a housekeeper come all day on Thursdays and Mondays. I had a gardener and an ironing service. The housekeeper did all laundry and bed changing etc. I had a live-in nanny (or au pair once they were in school) who would provide 2 nights babysitting per week which included putting the kids to bed so we could go out for a few hours as a couple.

It’s really really tough but it’s impossible to have 2 full time working parents in high pressured jobs and raise a young family without a lot of support, whether that is family support or paid for help.

I’ve been with my husband for over 25 years now and there are 2 things we promised we’d never argue over and that’s who does more around the house and money.

Apologies if someone has already posted this, but it's copied from an older post on MN I saw a few years ago that struck a cord so I saved it. I think it applies here:

*Household chore inequity and child care inequality is a form of domestic abuse. It forces women to work themselves into exhaustion and illness, whilst men buy their free time with female exhaustion.

No one wants to see themselves as being in an abusive relationship. It means acknowledging that someone you love, someone you married or committed to, someone you chose to have children with is taking advantage of you and that hurts on so many levels.

it's heartbreaking to acknowledge, but acknowledge it we must.

If your husband or partner is capable of working at their job without being micromanaged and given extremely explicit instructions, then they are capable of contributing fairly at home without being given extremely explicit instructions and micromanaged. If they act like they are incapable they are gaslighting you.

If they were capable of living independently without living in a rat-infested pigsty without any clean clothes and living off pizza, then they are capable of ensuring children are fed and clothed, groceries are done, and household chores are shared equally. If they act like they are incapable they are gaslighting you.

If they claim they love you and yet your health comes secondary to their leisure, they're gaslighting you.

If they claim they can't possibly function and it would be unsafe for them to work with broken sleep, but it's totally fine for you to have to work, drive and do all the household chores and childcare on broken sleep, they're taking advantage of you.

If they say they are going to get up in the night and help but when the time comes the pretend to be asleep/complain, they're gaslighting you.

If they don't even actually try to settle the baby and had bub back almost immediately with "they just want you:", they're gaslighting you.

If your health, sanity, sleep, work, or self-esteem are suffering because you are the one doing everything, whilst they leverage your exhaustion into their free time, they're abusing you.
Like other forms of abuse, it will not get better on its own. It's not an accident.

So please ladies. Please stop laughing it off as "just men"

It's not just men. It's purposeful.

It might not be consciously purposeful, but it is still purposeful. They know they can get away with it.*

So get a cleaner/housekeeper who comes at least three times a week and does laundry. It's insane that you both do such high pressure jobs but aren't already taking steps like this to make your lives better.

it sounds exhausting. Can you outsource the laundry as well? get the cleaner to come more often? get your husband to take over the outsourcing of the laundry (i guess the shirts that are already outsourced are his?)

But to be honest what you may need as much, or more than more outsourcing, is couples therapy. and maybe therapy for you for yourself

There are a lot of useful practical suggestions on here - outsourcing, weekly online shops, household rota - but these are all just bandaids over your main problem which is your husband is an arsehole.

It sounds like he has no intention of changing so really the only thing you can do is (as others have said) restructure your household finances so he is contributing fairly and you are able to save, and get outside advice so you can come up with a long term plan for a future without him.

Alternatively just do as many of the ‘bandaids’ people have suggested here and accept that it might help make life more manageable but you will be always doing the lion’s share and never really appreciated for it.

I really don't understand your figures. We get shirts ironed for around £20 a week, though admittedly I drop them off for that purpose and collect them on my way to and from work. We're not scrimping and saving, but food shopping for four is at most £800 a month. I know that that cleaning figure is per month, not per week, but given that the cleaner is only coming one day a week it does seem on the high side.

I get it that you are doing stuff at the last minute because you are under pressure. That's why it would ultimately make sense financially to have someone like a housekeeper/nanny who can rally round with nursery collection, looking after all the children's stuff, keep the place clean and maybe also cook for the children and do laundry.

Your DH is a vile, abusive bully. You might find this article helps clarify just how much emotional abuse you're dealing with, on top of your workload. You have to face the fact that he will likely never change, and your life would be infinitely better without him.

https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/memberarticles/the-insidious-damage-caused-by-covert-emotional-abuse

How sad.

He's a cunt. A nasty, abusive, bullying cunt who doesn't respect you and doesn't love you or your kids. That is screamingly obvious from everything you've written.
Leave him. Please!!! You sound great and although you are hard on yourself, you are making it all work despite this twat criticising and doing fuck all himself. Imagine being free from him. How much lighter and happier you'll feel.
You deserve so much more than this.

I'd suggest this should be a last resort. If your husband perceives that he's working 14 hour days and supporting you, he will respect you less and you will become even more of a servant in his eyes. Plus it makes no sense to harm your career prospects if you don't have to.

How do your ‘practical’ tips address the fact that she is married to a misogynistic pig? Or does that part not bother you?

What is gods name is she cleaning to justify that cost?

it sounds to me like his is an arse. But also you could be more organised. The chaos you are describing doesn’t happen at my house ( and we have similar working patterns and 4 kids)

he needs to do more absolutely, but all you can control is what you do. So maybe it’s time to regroup and make some changes and get it all a bit more together FOR YOU.

What sacrifices is he making exactly? He works, you work plus do all parenting and taking care of house on little sleep.

All those people he looks down on for not being successful have different priorities to him. My own DH is gone 8-5.50 and gets stuck into things with the toddlers before they go to bed. He could earn more elsewhere but wants to actually spend time with his family. My toddlers adore their daddy. My teen has a terrible relationship with his father and always has. His father also only values money and status and would work long hours instead of spending time with his child.

Fundamentally as things stand your husband makes your life harder than it should be. He doesn’t have your back. Other women work full time but some us have partners and husbands who are equal partners and respect us.

Your doing a great job OP despite the lack of support.

@Crunchingleaf he sacrifices time with his family and any spare time he has too. That's what he'd say anyway.

I think he thinks if you want to be earning well and also saving and investing your money in order to create longer term wealth, then you need to make massive sacrifices.

That's also why he actually resents the amount I spend on outsourcing. I think if it was up to him, I would literally be doing it all by myself with no help. Saving the money and investing it.

Can you imagine.

I agree with the poster that said ' that's why wfh is bad for women '.

It is so true ! I can't change that in my cornet job. However if I changed jobs I could go to an office, but honestly I would probably collapse if I had to do that as well. And I don't think he'd change.

Nothing will change the fact that he is a bully, OP. Nothing except intensive psychotherapy, which I am willing to bet my own house he will never have. Any therapy costs would be best spent on you to discover why you feel you have to put up with this.

That's also why he actually resents the amount I spend on outsourcing. I think if it was up to him, I would literally be doing it all by myself with no help. Saving the money and investing it.

Because he wants to profit off your "free" labour

He is moaning that you are spending money on getting his shirts ironed because he thinks that should be your job despite you working full time in a six figure salary and doing the bulk of the house and childcare

You have to understand that he can't possibly love you and think that. That's not love.

@doyoulikeflowers you do need to renegotiate the deal with him, he has to change his perspective. I had somewhat similar issues with my dh when the dc were about this age and a lot was due to expecting that he was going to get the deal his father had and he has to change his perspective or you’ll end up divorcing for one reason or another. My dh did change but it was painful. He said a lot of the things you’ve said. It’s like Victorian dad mode kicked in when he had children.

I have wfh 100 percent for 15 years thanks to dc, and it’s meant a lot of lost opportunities to the point where my skills are now behind the average in the role. I don’t have great visibility with senior management and I’ve lost too much time as the resident picker up of any home issues - otoh, my dh appreciates me and understands the job impact. I’d definitely think once the youngest is over 3/4, get back into an office at least part of the week. Wfh 100 percent is just so bad long term and your dh very well knows this too.

Well done, OP, for offloading on MN. First step taken, acknowledging your vulnerability - yes, you’re in crisis. I really feel for you with all that crazy plate-spinning.

We know when something, somehow has to change. Sounds like you’re entering a change process - usually distraught, confused, messy, noisy etc - but it’s a positive sign and a great start. There’s life in that ‘shell’ of a self after all 💫

The Cycle of Change:
Pre-contemplation > contemplation > preparation > action > maintenance

Have you had enough?

The power to effect change rests with YOU - considering what you can realistically change, and accepting what you can’t.

If your partner jumps on board for the greater good - great - but that’s HIS responsibility. No amount of magical thinking on your part will effect change in his behaviour.

Have you got someone to talk to? A counsellor/similar or good friend - to offload to and process with? You’ve been so honest and vulnerable on MN and could really do with a listening ear, and someone to remind you of your positive qualities.

Trust the process - you will start to see things more clearly, become better at making good decisions, become empowered.

The ‘Drama Triangle’ is a useful device for looking at roles we can get stuck in, and healthier versions of those roles.
https://drkathrynkissell.com/resources/karpmans-drama-triangle/

Good luck x

Ok you have to change something. Do not give up your 6 figure job to put socks away.
You need to talk to him , and it needs to be an ultimatum. Write a list, ignore jibes from him until you get to the end

"I can't do all the meal planning, shopping , cooking, tidying, household accounts , childcare and work full time.
I need you to do some of these , which ones?....
you can lie in until 9am on Saturdays, then I need you to take the children out of the house every Saturday morning I will then do xxx. On Sundays I will lie in until 9am and then we will do something all together and go to the supermarket or plan meals together.
Cleaner to come extra day to do washing /ironing and drop the shirt service
All money to be put in central pot and all expenses paid from there, any surplus goes into joint savings

I would scream in his fucking face every time he was critical.

I'm really trying to remain calm and not argue for the children's sake.

Hold on do you pay for the cleaner etc solely out of your own earnings?

If so that's utterly ridiculous and no wonder you can't save.

THIS

absolutely this and the ONLY way forward

you pay for it out of the joint income. You agree what the cleaner will cover and how often it’s needed. You go to reputable company that has cleaners who will cover if the normal cleaners are off . You state explicitly to cleaners what you need, standards expected (write down is ideal)

yep, you’ll probably have to change cleaners every 2 years as all companies I have used do get a bit complacent after a while (this is over 20 years of using cleaners in 3 different parts of country so iis expected).

this will end the pressure and stress. It is the best money spent to stop the arguments. Knowing that someone else will clear up mess on a given day also means the tidier person (I mean the one who gets freaked by mess most) , who sounds like your husband , will relax knowing it’s not going to build indefinitely

yes it cost. But you’re in different places, he’s working too long hours to do his fair share and is whinging. In return you’re pushing back and he perceives this as nagging. Neither of you can solve this. You both work, you BOTH need a “housewife” to do tasks like this. You’re going to have to stump up the cash as a priority and move onto doing nicer things to do with each of your precious time .

my argument with my husband was I’m paid twice the rate as a cleaner (or more as time went by), it is not cost effective for me to reduce my hours to do housewife tasks . It is much better financial sense to pay someone else, whose job it is, and will be less emotionally involved than we were.