Daughter told not to tell Mummy by family member.

[dragonkeeper321]

First time poster but long time reader.

DD went out with MIL and SIL. When DD returned home, the first thing she said to me was 'SIL told me not to tell Mummy something'. DD is almost 3 and hasn't ever said this before. She then proceeded to say something silly like 'nothing exciting' every time I asked about her day. Again, completely out of the ordinary and not something I have heard her say before.

Bit of background, MIL/SIL regularly ask to take DD out for the day and DD loves them both dearly. I'm always happy for the time to myself. I ask what their plans are so I can prepare clothing, snacks, my own day etc. which is completely normal in my head but I'm always met with animosity and I have to ask multiple times before they tell me their plans. MIL has also given DD snacks and drinks that she isn't allowed when with her. Fizzy drinks etc.

This latest incident has really angered me and I don't know if I'm being unreasonable. I don't think I am, I think saying anything to a child followed by 'don't tell parents' is really wrong and not a habit I want DD to even be aware of at this age.

I've asked DH to deal with this because I'm so angry. He agrees he is on my side and it isn't correct but can't do anything if they deny they said anything to DD.

@Rebeldiamond1 , I was thinking the same but the alarm bells would probably be ringing louder.

What strikes me as odd is your dd saying ‘nothing exciting.’ That’s been fed to her surely.
Normally children tell you every single sodding detail until your ears are bleeding - they don’t tell you nothing exciting has happened. Not until they’re teenagers anyway when you could take them to a concert with a line up of every band they liked and they’d still say “Yeah, it was ok.”

So that suggests to me that they’ve done something with her (even if it’s just a chocolate bar), told her to keep a secret, and then told her exactly what to say if you ask. Not only is she now not telling you about the treat but she’s not saying anything else about the day either. She can’t even tell you they went to the park or whatever because it’s all hidden behind ‘nothing exciting.’ That’s a seriously dodgy precedent to set.
Anyone with dodgy intentions could tell her not just ‘don’t tell’ but ‘here’s what you say instead so mummy doesn’t worry/get cross’ and she spouts a line that doesn’t send up any red flags. That’s really not ok.
And it actually to me suggests something more than a quick treat - you don’t prime a child to say ‘nothing exciting’ about their entire day over a quick bottle of drink. Or maybe you do. It just strikes me as odd - usually people are desperate to prove what an amazing time they’ve given your child.

I mean this kindly cos obviously secret keeping can be a very very dodgy thing & SO context specific BUT...

Could there be an element of them perceiving you as controlling over times & food etc? If they are taking your little one out & are dealing with snacks etc themselves then it's not necessary for you to provide them unless you're excessively strict in that area. I don't see why they'd need to not tell you where they are going - does that always happen?

There does seem to be this trend of micromanaging every aspect of our kids lives & I can't help but wonder if that's what is happening here & maybe they've just no truck with it any more?

To me this situation is worthy of an eye-roll & a reminder to them that secrets must be handled carefully. You know your daughter isn't at risk with them so being distraught seems like an overreaction (which us mums are good at when it comes to our kids) which makes me wonder if, perhaps, your reigns are too tight?

Interesting that the NSPCC's are still advocating 'good secrets and bad secrets'.

We know that many children who are abused may not perceive their maltreatment as 'bad', their maltreatment may involve making the child feel special or unique, they might be groomed with gifts or money and their body may produce involuntary feelings of pleasure - I was taught that the contemporary advice is 'surprises' vs 'secrets' and that 'good' vs 'bad' is outdated and potentially dangerous.

Yeah fair question. I probably didn't explain well because I was just relating it to the situation of a 'secret' set up by someone outside of mum or dad (MIL/SIL in this case). But the idea that a safe secret can only be kept from one parent still works - because our kids have a network of other adults in their lives.

So if daddy is the one keeping a secret from mummy, it's ok to tell grandma. As they get older we expand their circle. So at 7, 9, and 10 our kids can each name 5-6 adults they could talk to about a secret someone asked them to keep. Like I said, I have autistic kids and they tend to be quite literal, so they often tell their whole network about something that's no big deal - but that's ok if it gets them help if they ever are unsafe.

Kind of funny example recently. My daughter had a wardrobe malfunction, tucked her school dress in her undies after going to the loo. The teacher on duty told her 'never mind, nobody saw, my lips are sealed'. DD interpreted this as a secret and therefore made sure to tell myself, my husband, her classroom teacher, her grandma, our GP, and our parish priest. And to their credit, everyone took her seriously and said it was OK to talk to them any time something was bothering her.

I think its okay, necessary, to let children know the difference between good secrets and bad secrets. I always gave my daughter examples of good (don't tell Gran what we've got her for her birthday) and bad (if someone hurts you and tells you to keep it secret).
And its par for the course for grandparents etc to give kids sweets, and other such minor indiscretions, against your preference.
I think you might be veering into over control @dragonkeeper321 .

I would meet them, without kids - not say anything inflammatory or accusatory but just like -

X is going to be going to school soon and have care by adults outside the family. I think maybe you treated x to some food or drink you thought I wouldn’t like her having so you might have joked for her not to tell mummy. I’m not in anyway upset about that but I just want to make sure that X knows that if another adult says “don’t tell mummy” it doesn’t put her in a dangerous position- because often child abusers in places like schools and activities groups often tell the kids to not tell mummy or daddy. So we just want to make sure that she learns she can always tell mummy and daddy and get help. This is the same reason we use the correct scientific names for private parts. And I know we don’t want to think that sort of thing could happen to our kids - if we plant the seeds now hopefully if it did unfortunately happen we’d be able to deal with it quickly. Can you help us with this to give her the best shot at a safer future”.

Thanks for this. I definitely agree that good/bad secrets is open to interpretation/manipulation. Surprises is much better. A few PP have mentioned that surprises are never open-ended, which I think is the important distinction.

By a MIL? Bit weird?

I reckon they've take her for a Happy Meal
They know you'll implode so that's why they've drilled "Nothing exciting" into her
They're wrong for doing that
You're wrong for being so inflexible they feel obliged to lie

If they won't tell you what the plans are first time, DD doesn't go. They'll learn. DH should be on this and backing you up. So what if they deny it? He can start by tackling their evasiveness.

Re secrets: always a red flag. If DD can't tell Mummy, she should tell Daddy with Mummy listening in. As long as at least one of you know there's no conflict with DD and as she gets older you can demonstrate why keeping secrets from parents is a bad thing. Could you organise a play date and find out from your friend?

You need to know what's going on even if it's innocuous. I'd be inclined to pull back on the outings, especially as nothing remarkable ever happens.

In my opinion a bit of over reaction from posters on here -
Keep a closer eye on what they are doing
Go with them on the day out
Or change the routine from now on and stop the visits
No need for a court of enquiry !!

My mother did this when my daughter was about 5. It was some fizzy cola. I explained to my mum the danger in this that it creates division. It was good in that led to a chat with my daughter about the dangers of when someone tells you to keep a secret and what to do in this scenario no matter who- even grandma. Try and turn this around into a talking point with mil and sil as well as your DD.

It's upsetting though but this in itself wouldn't stop me allowing DD to spend valuable quality time with them and also sounds like you also benefit from this time on your own.

If the secret can't be told to you, could your DH ask her? It could be something innocent like a mothers day thing but I'd be annoyed that they were encouraging kid that it's ok to keep secrets from parents.

This is a helpful way to give them context. I'm going to use this!

If you've told MiL and SiL no fizzy drinks they should respect your boundaries. You are kind enough to allow your DD special alone time with your DD and I feel they are taking advantage of that. Now adding another level of disrespect with the secrets. If you don't nip this now it will just go on getting bigger and more elaborate. I allow sparkling water with a hint of lemon in it. My DC have always been happy with that and seen it as a treat. I give my DGC the same. If my DD told me no X for her DS's I'd not be giving X to them to undermine her. Grandparents as should compliment parents not undermine them.

Agree.

100% unacceptable behaviour by SIL & MIL

No way would they be having my child alone again for a very long time.
I would make it very clear why & what I think of their behaviour.

Hi SIL & MIL
thank you for taking DD out for the day she generally had a good time. she has been confused by your instruction "don't tell Mummy" & we are not happy with you saying this to our 3 year old.
We are bringing our children up in an open & questioning household & are very clear that nothing is to be hidden as secrets are damaging & dangerous. This is common practice among parents & children in todays society & important as children grow older with all that is available online & via social media.

You have overstepped a line & betrayed our trust in you. therefore DD will not be going out with you for some time. We will explain this to DD
DH & You

I totally agree with this. It's not acceptable to 'treat' GC to things their parents have asked you not to give them. Parents need to be able to trust grannies & grandpas to provide the same standard of care. I 'spoil' my GCs with cuddles and love.

I wouldn’t feel comfortable allowing my small daughter to go out with in-laws who are hostile towards me. Is there an opportunity to reset the boundaries here and ask directly about the “don’t tell mummy” line and why they are so hostile to you? Make sure DH backs you up. Can you say that until the relationship with you is more respectful there can’t be any more unsupervised trips.

It must feel very 'let's turn you against mummy'. Not right at all.

"He agrees he is on my side and it isn't correct but can't do anything if they deny they said anything to DD."

Well that's not true.

He can say that there will be no more unsupervised visits or outings until she is older.

He can explain that while their 'secret' may be about a harmless ice cream or something, what they are doing is teaching her to keep secrets from her parents if another adult tells her to, which puts her at risk.

I always told my DDs that they can tell me anything and everything and no one should tell them not to tell me something. A friend’s mum once told DD1 not to tell me they had sweets before lunch. DD told her “I tell my mum everything”

YANBU OP

I don’t know. I took Granddaughter out yesterday and she chose a gift for her Mummy,my daughter . She had great fun choosing somewhere to hide the gift and there was lots of play whispering and giggles.Pretty sure I referred to the gift as a surprise for Mummy. Absolutely innocent intentions and I would be amazed ,offended/pissed off ,if it was interpreted any other way. Granddaughter is 4 and very articulate and shares all her news so definitely no secrets.