To have told my niece she won’t make it into Oxford uni?

[Awfulaunt]

Hi all,
first off sorry if there’s typos I’m typing this on my phone.
for context, I’ve been a private tutor for years, mainly English and History. Over the years I’ve helped with lots of UCAS and applications including a few oxbridge ones. My niece is at the age where she’s thinking about uni and her parents asked me to tutor her for English and History, I agreed. She is bright, gets Bs and the occasional A or C. She asked me if I think she should apply to Oxford and I said “No not for your undergrad. Maybe if you work really really hard at uni and do extracurriculars and things while you’re there and come out with a first you could try for your masters if you want to do one, but it’s not really an option at this moment in time.” All seemed fine, we carried on and she seemed okay. Fast forward to now and I just had SIL on the phone shouting at me that I crushed her dreams and that she was going to apply and get in and show me (etc). I said I’d love it if she did, I’d be absolutely thrilled if she got in to spite me.
I don’t think I was harsh when I told her, I don’t think it was cruel. I think it’s kind of my job to tell her. I didn’t rule it out in the future because I feel like once she’s at uni she will flourish academically because she will have more freedom etc and I’ve told her this many times. I feel horrible that I’ve upset her but I genuinely think it was the right thing to do.
I sent her a message saying I am sorry if I came off harsh or anything I just want what is best for her. Also spoke to DB who said SIL was just angry because niece was upset and that he thinks I did the right thing. Bit miffed that he let her speak to me like that, but also when she goes off best thing to do is stay out the crossfire.
Am I in the wrong and just blind to it?

And to be fair, that’s what they build their reputation of graduates on: “ the cow philosophy “ ( outstanding in the field) .

So the answer would have been - you need to go and resit all of your GCSEs to get 7-9s (ideally all 9s) and then do better in your A level studies next time, because what you have currently isn’t good enough?

Because with GCSEs that are all grades 5-6 and only on 7 for music, that is the only way Oxford or Cambridge would even be a feint possibility…

I think you mean private school. All independent schools are not public schools. Only the traditional historic schools are. Winchester, Eton, Shrewsbury, Harrow, Rugby, Westminster, and Charterhouse, St Paul's and Merchant Taylor's. Other prestigious boarding schools like Marlborough are often included.
The rest are private schools.

@JessS1990

Cambridge to the best of my knowledge do not use GCSE grades in the selection process.

I believe they do but they don't apply such strict rules regarding GCSEs as Oxford does. They focus more on relevant gcse subjects whereas Oxford takes the top 8

Of course they do otherwise all they have are predicted grades and everyone applying to them pretty much will have exceptional predictions and well crafted personal statements.

public schools are fee paying schools. Google it.

They know that, they were saying was it a public or private school? Both are fee paying but not the same. I guess it’s because public school is ultra elite but some private school can be quite mid.

The last statistics I saw from Oxford on this showed no measurable difference in performance in Finals that was due to the school the student had been to.

Cambridge interview a much higher proportion of applicants than Oxford, and both have entrance tests for some subjects.

Cambridge also make more offers per place than Oxford, but with higher grade requirements.

I wasn't suggesting it's easier to get in, just that you fit in better and therefor have a nicer time socially. Please don't put words onto my mouth.

What on earth made you do it????
You have no idea what grades she will get on the day, or how poorly others of her age will do. You dashed her dreams and as a result, she may give up trying. Perhaps the best thing to have said was "All is possible, and if you work really hard to improve your grades, why not add them to your list". Perhaps pointing out how expensive it is to go to either, and that she could do just as well at .......... . You could do some research as to the best unis for the subjects she is choosing. My own daughter changed her uni and subject AFTER she finished her exams, so nothing is set in stone.
And yes, do encourage her to volunteering or extra-curricular activities.

That isn’t really the point- the point is whether the op should have said what she said in the way that she did.

It’s disturbing how many people think Oxford admissions is fascinated by your grade 7 bassoon and DofE Silver.

Even Choral scholars have to go through the normal admissions process.

Oxford and Cambridge are often cheaper than other universities to attend, because they have more accomodation that they own themselves, and many of the colleges have large endowments behind them that they use to support students.

DofE on top of the same grades as the next person may well tip the balance of course, showing that you can work hard AND contribute to the life of the Uni.

Admissions seem to be completely arbitrary at the moment - I know someone who was genuinely in the the top 20 students in the country for GCSE points, really interesting guy, nat. schools sporting hero etc etc Still didn’t get in. I will be telling my daughter (five grade 9s at GCSE, the rest 8s) to have a go, but not take it personally if she doesn’t get in - chalk it up to experience and have a great time somewhere else. It just doesn’t mean what it did, I don’t think.

Obviously the OP is not stopping the niece from doing very well at A level and reapplying after exams, but why do you think Oxford would give her an offer if she applies as part of the standard pre exams admissions process?

As long as fees remain capped, Oxford and Cambridge will be no more expensive than any other English university. Subsidised accommodation is often available for the full thre or four years of your degree, there are generous book grants, and every college has its own library which will buy in books as requested by students so they don’t have to buy their own; as a result an Oxbridge degree can be quite a bit cheaper than in many other universities.

Not part of the selection criteria, at either Oxford, Cambridge or any other UK university I am aware of.

UK university selection processes are very far from being arbitary. Each university has its own system, but they each have one, often they are happy to share details of those systems.

Tbh gcse ( and even a level grades) are aren’t really what these places are looking for. Most academics at these universities don’t rate them as qualifications particularly, mostly because they are relatively formulaic examinations and don’t really require a great deal of independent thought. They ARE used as an initial screen or they simply couldn’t get through the volumes of applications. However, if someone performs really well at interview ( and often aptitude tests) that would be of far more importance. And performing at interview means showing the requisite mindset to approach the conceptual tasks given ( not being a great chat show guest or “ putting your best foot forward” by managing to slip in how much charity work you have done) . The truth is that two candidates who look identical on the face of their school results can be discernibly miles apart in terms of their raw potential and ability to tackle the material they are given that is more relevant to how the course will be taught. It follows that the best gcse results might easily be outperformed in terms of what they are looking for.

I don’t think this is harsh.. similar was said to me when applying to vet schools (not Cambridge) and I was a straight A* student at GCSE but not at A level. It saved me a lot of heartache to be told
in no uncertain terms to play my options safe

I didn’t flounder academically at all. I was more than capable. But time and time again I watched others with more confidence do what I couldn’t. Think Saltburn without the weirdness and sociopathy.

DD1 never applied to either as she just didn't think she's have a chance - her friend who is there is encouraging her to apply for her masters (Cambridge) -she gained AAA with an A* for her EPQ - he has a mate studying the course she would have applied for - he got AAB and got in!

Unless she is of royal family or going to achieve the highest attainment, even then will have to go through entry exams, then unfortunately she won't get into Oxford. You have explained this, it's realistic, no you are experienced and understand the process whereas her Mum clearly doesn't. X

She said that she is likely to flourish at university and should consider applying for post grad if she got a first, but that she doesn’t currently meet the criteria for getting an offer for an undergraduate degree.

How is the likelihood of getting an offer not the point?