To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

Not sure this is the best analogy. This conversation isn't about curtailing men's freedoms, but women attempting to understand why men are curtailing theirs.

Let's be honest, no man was ever coming to this thread to say 'Yes, I hate you all' whether he does or not.

I think a lot of men have an immense sense of entitlement towards women a smaller number actively hate women. I think mainly a lot of men look at women in terms of what they can do for them I think they are also more likely to be selfish and lacking in empathy. There are good men out there too but I think they are every much the minority.

On one end of the shit man spectrum there are the lazy ones who will get away with doing the minimum while watching their wife pick up the slack because they are lazy and life stuff is boring and will say they love their wives and probably believe it too and the other end are men who actively try to harm women intentionally and I don’t think they hate women they just see them as objects which is worse really. I think the ones who actively hate women (incel types). I think a lot of men are just plain selfish.

If anything happened to my Dh I would rather cut my own legs off and eat them than go near another man.

This you?

Reply to @NothingVenturedAndAllThat Perhaps not, (I was trying to think of something equally ridiculous which seemed like there was a chance it could happen 🤣) Like for like then, a conversation between men saying all women hate us.

It sounds like what you’re saying here is that whatever a man says, coming into this thread. You won’t believe anyway?

What I always wonder is , why aren't the more decent men more active in trying to change things so that there aren't so many toxic, harmful men? So that harmful men aren't costing society so much in policing, being housed in prisons etc ? Aren't more interested in the raising of boys in our society and what they can do to help shape better men growing up? Aren't usually the ones out on the street protesting about knife crime etc? You have to conclude they don't care enough and then ask why not?

Evidence of the lack of caring about women by too many men has been shown by George Galloway being elected as MP for Rochdale. No way should a man with his behaviour towards women ever be elected.

Though he is not alone amongst MPs.

As is often the case the first reply nails it. Not really much more to add that wouldn’t be really depressing.

I agree. I didn’t use to, but I’m middle aged now and I’ve just learnt too much about men.

For most men, their view of women wavers between lack of interest except for where we intersect with their lives, and contempt/ hatred.

For example, feminism should not be women’s work at all. It should be men’s work to keep other men in line with regard to how they treat us. The fact that men don’t do this tells you everything you need to know about what men really think about us.

Their interest in us is not as actual human beings, because if it was they would be doing feminism instead of us doing it. instead, very, very few men turn up to events about women.

Men are interested in us in terms of how we benefit them.

I’m of an age now where I have seen lots of couples divorce. In the clear majority of cases men seek to rip their wives off. And the casual nature that men have about trying to pay their kids as little as possible in maintenance. And other men support them in this, instead of condemning them.

There are a few, a very few, men who actually see women as human beings and join us in fighting for our rights as equal humans.

So YANBU. It’s really disturbed me as I’ve aged to realise this. But the evidence points to it being undeniably true.

All men do not hate women. However, some men are blind to the struggles we face as women and are therefore ignorant to it. This ignorance isn't always conscious. A male friend in my life has a daughter a few years ago and he admitted it opened his eyes to the battles that women and his daughter will inevitably face. He doesn't hate women. He is a great husband to his wife and great dad to his 2 children in many ways. He just did not realise. As humans, we don't realise how many others that live a different lives struggle and their battles simply because we just don't know.

The most sensible post I’ve read on here! Including mine 🤣

@Justsomethoughts not sure if this already mentioned, but you might find this interesting reading https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1398504653/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&dib_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.8nI83WSEZk2jkkamURxsxSzMZoxnXvx_0ro-c83gdm9xOfxhaHr90cHklYlIDMjumELpkriwFBQXa6ywsxkKbzcJhx3kD7Ode7E1NvewBvzZai2UFzb0lmRBlU6Hkcglb6nqE1ZpFTO9PNlhduXaig.Og-ZcTHJnZK_Ym6y56c2n-YGRd4R4Hh9z8FoOTWRAbQ&qid=1709276701&sr=8-1

👏👏👏Absolutely this.

For anyone saying "not my dad/partner/brother/coworker" I'd ask you to consider just how they treat strangers they don't have a personal interest in mollifying. The good-guy image is an important asset to men, but if you look carefully you'll often see how selective it is.

🤷🏼‍♀️ doesn't matter to me either way. I understand why some women don't think it's useful for men to comment tho.

And I suppose I think that's because we're incapable of having a conversation about men as the sex class responsible for nearly all violent & sexual crime without someone popping up to NAMALT. Typically when men do that it's because they're more interested in distancing themselves from that reality than the fact that that's the reality. The result is that I would imagine the only reason they'll participate in this thread is to continue that motivation.

Idc if they're here or not but I do understand why it's a futile exercise.

This foxes me too. Discussions like this are met with a scream of NAMALT, but if these decent men are the majority...where are they? The whole wayne couzens thing is so worrying and a perfect illustration of a serious lack of decent men willing to take a stand, even among those employed to do so. :(

It doesn't matter how many NAMALTs are posted. The reality is too many men are like that and that's the issue. That's why the generalisations apply and we talk about men as a class.

Someone mentioned murder specifically, I wouldn't say 2 women a day is an insignificant number, but it's not just murder is it? It's the rapes,sexual assault and harassment. It's the DV. It's the viewing and promotion of porn , especially violent porn. It's the rape jokes, the chocking jokes, the "barely legal "jokes. It's abandoning children and all the "crazy exes".It's the constant erosion of boundaries. It's the protests and objections of women having safe spaces. It's the constant attempts(sometimes successful) at eroding women's bodily autonomy rights. It's passively standing by and watching it all happen, or worse , condoning it. If that's not hate then what is it? It's not love or even like or even the most basic respect for another human being.

Once you consider all that the numbers increase massively. So much so that it definitely is too many men. So much so that we can talk about men as a class.

My daughter is 20 and she tells me she doesn't know a single woman her own age who hasn't been 'sexually' choked, or attempts made.

Couldn’t agree more. I think you’re treated more nicely when you’re younger because basically men think they might get a sh*g out of it. But it’s still a fake nice. The older you get the less of this you get. On the plus side this means men talking to you less full stop. Handy.

I think it’s a societal thing of women’s purpose being smile sweetly, make the world a nicer place while having to work harder on everything we do, all the while if we did like for like as a man it would be viewed as worse. We’ve got such a long way to go. I honestly think the only way to escape this is for women to not be in relationships with men and not have children. Unless it’s good men.

I’m older than this but have just done a quick poll of women in my WhatsApp group and all say they have been victims of some sort of unwanted sexual contact. That ranges from bum pinching/cat calling to rape.

My husband has always said he doesn't like women and they can't be trusted.

I don't know why as he hadn't had a relationship before he met me so it's not as though he was cheated on and his parents were still together until his dad died when he was 19.

Maybe he heard one sided stories from his friends. We have two daughters so I'd like to think this isn't true.

I'm sorry but woman are 50% of the population . This is what troubles me when talking about womans issues. Its like we are some tiny minority that there needs to be a conscious effort to get to know about. We are 50% . That man , lovely as he may be has been surrounded by woman his whole life. He has not noticed, he has not been interested. Now he is as its his daughter !

Reminded me of this from Man Who Has it All.

This is not my experience at all. I am shaped by my experiences, and the men in my life aren't wankers. Sorry, guess I'm not your target audience, but fuck me OP I hate generalisations, and that includes generalisations about men.

It's not.

I go by statistics.

98% of sexual assaults are committed by men.

3 out of 5 women say they have been subjected to a sexual assault or abuse.

8 out 10 mixed secondary school sexual harassment/assaults are committed by boys against girls.

(The last one is why my DD14 goes to an all girls school)

YANBU

This is multifaceted, I think.

I see most posters say that they do agree with Op, but are quick to point out that they have a lovely DH / son / brother etc.

However, how many killers have we known, (the Green Mile killer springs to mind), who have been family men, and have treated their wives likes Queens, but have been killing women as a side sport? There have been quite a few. It makes you wonder, whether the version you see of your DH / son / brother, is the whole version of them.

Not as serious, but I thought that my first H was a good man. Turned out, he had been secretly coming on sexually, to all of the women in my life, for 20 years. Until someone told me and I left him. I was totally blindsided.

That said (!), I also have a wonderful (2nd) DH who is loving, supportive, and would do anything for me, and a son who is the same. My Dad is a bit bigoted, but he's 82 and of a different era.

I don't think that men hate women, I think the hardest thing for men is that they crave sex and often can't get it, for love nor money. As a woman, I know if I wanted sex tonight, I could go into a bar and find a strange man who would do the honours. I think a lot of men are exceptionally sexually frustrated, and that sometimes converts into a blind rage that women won't "put out" and in a very few cases, if the man is a psychopath, that translates to rape and murder.

But, I don't subscribe to the notion, that your average Joe hates women. That's just too simplistic.