To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

Individual men are responsible for their own behaviour is the argument that brrrrrrrr is making.

I'm not the 'thread police'. I didn't say that you shouldn't post in AIBU, just that if you do, you are going to have people who don't agree with your point of view and think you are BU. If you had posted in Feminism saying that 'I think that men hate women' then you would probably have got different answers. You still got plenty that agreed with you, though.

Of course we are all individually responsible for our own behaviour but we have to recognise the context of where our behaviour sits within society.

I think the hyperbole of the original post has got everyone going around in circles.

Does anyone think men HATE women in a violent all men want to hurt or kill all women? I’m guessing not.

Do most of us think that deep down the large majority of men have an unconscious belief that we are less that in some ways, not completely worthy of equality and there to serve a purpose for them? Probably.

Indeed. I understand the nature of ‘AIBU’ and have enjoyed the debate/learned a lot.

Obviously I have my opinion though which has not been swayed by the opposing viewpoints I’ve seen so far.

@LovelyTheresa why can you say that greek men are awful, not some ,not a few,not a tiny minority, but we can't talk about men as a class? Do you really not see your own hypocrisy?

NAGMALT

It’s a pretty pointless argument though.

On an individual level, we all know that each person is responsible for their behaviour. When a woman is raped, we don’t just haul a token man in and blame him do we?

But if we look at statistics we can see very obvious behavioural patterns that occur according to sex class. So looking at men as a class means something.

I don’t know if you really don’t understand this.

😂Spot on!

They also said in an earlier post that maybe women are treated badly by men because that’s the behaviour they are expecting to receive so…

Not sure where to go with that one 🤷🏽‍♀️

Ah yes - I remember that now! I think this poster was the one keen to prove that men are lovely to her because she’s so pretty…

The mind boggles.

This is exactly it and what I meant when I queried the value of brr’s original question. If we want to make cultural shifts, I don’t understand the point in distinguishing between individual and collective responsibility in this instance. I still think the race analogy helps here as we are all IMO collectively responsible even though I did not individually perpetrate historical racist acts.

Maybe I’m missing something though.

Except I didn't say that 'Greek men are awful', did I. I said that I had bad experiences in Greece, but not that all the men there were awful!

Do you really not think that men are nicer to pretty women, just are women are nicer to handsome men? That is human nature! If that really 'boggles your mind' I don't know how you have got to whatever age you are and been able to function at all.

Indeed - In the same breath as men being great. So they are good but choose who to be nice to based on superficial reasons like attractiveness.

Plus, the women who are treated badly suffer because they expect it to happen.

I guess they must be ugly and expectant… 😂

If we're trying to modify men's behaviour towards who and what they find attractive I fear we're pissing against the wind.

So, just to be clear, you think men are ‘nicer’ to pretty women. You sure about that? Is it ‘nicer’ to constantly be trying to get every attractive woman into bed? Or to be thinking of your sexual chances with a woman when you are supposed to be, let’s say, supervising your child at a birthday party? Is that what ‘being nicer’ is to you?

I’d suggest it was rather the opposite. But then I’m cynical and old. Not pretty and naive like you…

@LovelyTheresa since I'm a dick, not just an ugly, bitter , misandrist, myopic woman who had bad things happen to her because she was expecting it.... I looked for your actual quote.

The one exception to this, now you mention it, was in Greece. Men there were awful, I'll give you that.

MEN there were awful.

Own you shit. I do mine.

People of both sexes are more pleasant to attractive people. It is not a sexual thing, and it is conscious, either. There has been study after study done on it. I don't know where you get 'naivety' from my pointing that out, if you have not realised this fact then you are the naive one.

People of both sexes are more pleasant to attractive people. It is not a sexual thing, and it is conscious, either. There has been study after study done on it. I don't know where you get 'naivety' from my pointing that out, if you have not realised this fact then you are the naive one.

But I don't, or know anyone who does so those studies and that reality must not exist according to you.

What is your definition of nice?

I would like men to:

• respect that I am more knowledgeable than them on topics in my profession,
• believe that my thoughts are rational and not the product of hormones,
• be more interested in the contents of my brain than the contents of my underwear…

I could go on.

Being attractive does not make men more likely to treat you as an equal which to me…is nice.

Sure.

Are you deliberately being obtuse?

I don’t doubt that women, on some minor level, might be better disposed towards attractive people. That’s certainly not what we’re discussing. The same may be true across most of the population. Sure.

Your point (many pages back) was about you not experiencing the misogyny that other posters constantly cited because you’re lovely and attractive.

So we’re not talking about your studies regarding general behaviour of all people. We’re talking about the awful behaviour/abuse routinely suffered by women at the hands of men which you deny exists on any significant scale.

The irony is that this dreadful abuse does happen to women of all levels of attractiveness- and perhaps even disproportionately to very attractive women because men can’t leave them alone.

The mind boggles precisely because you seem to have no idea about men. I can only assume that you’re about 20.

I think it’s more a difference in how problematic we see male behaviour.

If @LovelyTheresa doesn’t see anything wrong with ‘mild’ misogyny - a slap on the bum in the workplace, a group of men cat calling a lone female, men taking advantage of a drunk woman because ‘she seemed up for it at the time, then she won’t think their is a problem with men or some of their collective behaviour.

Some people don’t see this as an issue, or see how it creates a society which opens the doors for male behaviour which is even worse.

If society ( or the class of men) didn’t say, those young actresses were fame hungry and a little lose, then Weinstein wouldn’t have been able to operate.

If ‘men’ didn’t collectively say young poor girls who drink alchopops in the street were loose, then those abusers in Rochdale wouldn’t have been able to get away with it…

The smaller actions of ‘good’ men create an environment that leaves women vulnerable to the terrible actions of really bad ones. And I think that they are ALL responsible for that.

Bex, men - or the class of men - did not say any of those things collectively. That’s not possible. Men’s viewpoints are heterogeneous and diverse.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, darling, every single one of your replies is NAMALT. It's really, really boring!

If you truly have difficulty understanding why generalisations and probabilities are useful, might I suggest you head off to the nearest zoo and hop into the tiger enclosure? If that doesn't appeal, try the lions or gorillas. It'll be fun. Not all large animals maul humans.

Come back and show us your photos! 😘