To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

What’s your definition of casually mildly sexist?

Any one of the examples on the whole list applies only to a minority of men? If you gathered any ten men in a room I bet at least 9 of them would tick one of those boxes

I think you're the one that's delusional tbh.

Things like assuming women aren't physically strong enough to do certain things, ime. Also some men have a tendency to be overbearing, although the worst ones tend to be equally abrasive to men and women.

Add your own examples and I'm ticking the last man too.

You really think that 9 out of 10 men are rapists? What do you mean 'tick at least one box'? If you mean porn, then a LOT of women watch porn as well. The list that the PP gave was disingenous in that it tried to link innocuous behaviours (watching porn, which can be problematic but doesn't have to be) with rape and violence.

I drove into work the other day following a car with a bumper sticker that made me want to ram him off the fucking road. You know the evolution of man image - going from a monkey to an upright man? My husband has one and the end figure is a man on a motorbike - very fitting.

This incel horror's bumper sticker end figure was an upright man, with a big boobed woman kneeling at his feet on a leash?????? I mean who thinks it's OK to drive about with that on their car? Even if its just a "I'm into BDSM" thing it made me want to puke.

My husband is a lovely, lovely man and my sons are lovely too. However, I've known far too many men - including close family members - who very obviously hate women and want to do them harm.

You'd be wrong. You are literally saying ALL men are sexist. I am so so glad I don't live in your world. It is clearly a very bleak, ugly and depressing place.

By the end of this thread, it will be argued that women too rape, murder, harass and commit violent crimes in the same proportion as men. In the same way as Scarlett Blake is being called a woman.

Apologies I forgot another very important category on the list(amongst many others, I did say it wasn't a comprehensive list))and I didn't mean to.

-men who pay for "sex" .

It practically was earlier on in the thread, with incredulity expressed ( whether real or ingenuous)that the number of violent men so far exceeded that of women.

@LovelyTheresa I got it now. It's not that you don't know any men like that (even though last night you backtracked and ended up saying you know at least a couple) , it's that you have lower standards. Fair enough.

They don't commit crimes of violence at the same rate as men, but they do commit them. Even natal women are capable of violence. One of the most egregious pedophiles of recent years was a woman.

What do you mean 'lower standards'? I don't know any rapists. Not thinking that porn is a big deal is not 'having low standards'.

Yes, everybody knows that, and not a single person has said that women cannot commit violent crimes.

Why are you so fixated on rapists? Male violence doesn't stop at rapists/murderers. Is it because it suits your narrative as the numbers are "smaller" for you? Is it because you refuse to actually look at and acknowledge all the male behaviours that are harmful to women and girls? Is it so you can sleep at night and shame other women and victim blame them and pretend you're better than them for not knowing "that" kind of men?

No, it is because I am in touch with reality where not every man is an abusive monster nor every woman a victim. I actually find attitudes like yours quite infantilising to women, if I'm honest. According to you and similar posters, all women are either victims or potential victims. Well, I'm not (I suppose logically I am a potential victim, but I don't dwell on that) That is not how I choose to see life and my friends are the same. I wish people with your attitudes would stay in your echo chamber and stop trying to convince other women that we are oppressed all the time. It is very boring and condescending.

Spot on.
Only counting the extreme and ignoring the low level day to day insidious shit in how we can get the cries of namalt.

Include the fucking long list of all the ways men show their hatred or dislike or resentment or contempt or expectation of privilege and priority or superiority and suddenly that's looking like a much less deniable situation.

I disagree that most men hate woman.
I believe a small percentage of women believe this, but most women know there are lots of bad men out there but there are also lots of great men out there.

I dont think the bad men outweigh the good men.

I think some men dont pull their weight, i think some men don't want equality and dont see or treat women as equals and much more but no i dont think most men hate women and i dont know another woman who agrees wity this.

Also there's the personal and the general.
Am I as an individual personally oppressed by the men I have relationships with in my day to day life? Eg my husband, our sons, my doctor?
No.

Does that mean that men as a class, globally, treat women as a class, globally, with respect and dignity and as equals?
No.

You are absolutely right that not every man is an abuser but the MAJORITY of women have been victims.

I agree with this, but we are a minority on this site. Fortunately, Mumsnet is not the real world.

We recently had to move a very large and heavy sideboard (solid oak).

I - unlike my SO and our neighbour- didn’t even manage to lift it, not even a tiny bit!

And I would be rather surprised if I was physically weaker than the “average” woman… How is it sexist to correctly assume that I - and presumably many other women - wouldn’t be strong enough to lift it?

There are real physical differences between the sexes, especially upper body strength…

And I appreciate that my SO acknowledges these differences without even remotely implying that I am somehow lesser or less deserving of respect due to them, which really shouldn’t be uncommon or noteworthy…

So , porn is no big deal but the claim that men are stronger than women on average is? Brilliant!! I see where I went wrong, I had my priorities all wrong.

@LovelyTheresa so there aren't routes you avoid, or don't take if dark/late at night? You don't consider where you park? You don't watch your drinks (if you're still going out)? You never cross the street if something feels iffy or ring a friend? You take lifts from any man out there? You don't have any limits on how much you drink and how you are getting home? You don't take any precautions or have any limits on your behaviour?

I am a fairly strong woman, especially for my size. Thus, that is a particular male assumption that mildly irks me. I didn't say I thought it was egregiously awful, I was asked for an example of 'mild' sexism and I gave it. A man who was my height and size would not be assumed to be unable to lift things, even if he were no stronger than I was.