To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

Don't have children

It isn't 'reality'. It is delusion. It is the ones who say that all men hold women in contempt and are potential predators who are in denial. This is an example of the just world fallacy in action. Rather than realising that their experience is their experience, they have to believe that it is universal, because misery loves company. Please don't let them poison your well or influence how you feel about your loved men. I certainly don't. I am sorry for these women but I wouldn't want them anywhere near anyone I loved.

She grudgingly said 'not all men before people moan' it wasn't very sincere. She also was basing her argument largely on Mumsnet posts. Mumsnet seems to be chock full of useless, cheating, slobby husbands and put upon wives. It doesn't really bear much resemblance to life as I and many other people experience it.

Please I am too old, and have seen too much of the hate, the contempt, and the violence now to not believe that this is in fact the reality.

"Poison my well" indeed. What nonsense.

What an incredibly insensitive response…

Whatever your opinion on the original arguments of this thread, when someone details the abuse they’ve suffered I think to call their comment disgusting is well… quite disgusting.

“For example when it was claimed thousands to tens of thousands of men murder for every woman who murders - that was clearly a perception based on prejudice.”

No, it wasn't Brrr, you just assumed I meant only England and Wales.

Ha! They aren’t going to let that one go are they!
Even though the point still stands.

It's extremely telling that those who rush to dispute this line of thinking present as their argument 'men I know don't hate women so this whole idea is ludicrous '. Why is it that when a woman expresses anger towards men it's presented as an unreasonable display of violence? How many examples of art throughout history depict violent acts towards women?

How many examples of art throughout history depict violent acts towards women?

Good point. There must always have been a lively market for scenes of men assaulting (usually naked) women. Meanwhile, the handful of pictures showing female violence against men have been deemed monstrous.

There are plenty of modern examples of women in the public eye having to make a public statement that they 'do not hate men' based on the response to some innocous statement or t shirt or something - when are men ever required to do the same

“For example when it was claimed thousands to tens of thousands of men murder for every woman who murders - that was clearly a perception based on prejudice.”

I'm going to quote my own post, which is for accuracy:
“I don't know the exact ratio of violent murdering men to women but I would guess it’s thousands, if not tens of thousands, to one.”

This isn't a “claim” which some man just has to hasten to correct.
As you see, it has been clearly stated as a guess.

Is it a perception, based on prejudice?
No, it’s based on information from the World Economic Forum and the United Nations:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/violence-against-women-femicide-census/

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/GSH2018/GSH18_Gender-related_killing_of_women_and_girls.pdf

It appears my guess wasn't so far from the mark.
These two organisations haven't found it necessary to research the number of homicides committed by women, have they?
Meanwhile, look at the figures for murders of women worldwide, year on year.
Shameful.

Yup.

From jujubiest on Tumblr (2020). Hope they've come out in the right order. Damn, they haven't! Read in reverse order, or see this link: https://www.boredpanda.com/men-disturbed-female-on-male-violence-media-tumblr/

@Giggorata: "A 2000 global study on homicide by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime found that men accounted for about 98 percent of all homicide perpetrators worldwide"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender

This means there are 49 male murderers to every female murderer.

As stated by PPs (with links), a high proportion of homicides by women are self-defence. This is less likely to reduce a woman's sentence than a man's (documented, but I'm too tired to find it).

Thank you garlicky.

I can't find any figures on how many murders specifically of men are committed by women, and I'm too tired now as well. 🥱

Literally what do you expect people say? That all men are murderers and rapists?

'Not all men are like that' is a true statement and I wish people (not only on this thread) would stop reacting to it like it's goady handmaiden talk.

The 'bad luck' that leads to women having a negative experience of men, is often as much to do with the woman's ability and willingness to please than anything else. The women on here who are the most vigorous defenders and excusers of men, who minimise problems despite statistical evidence and other women's accounts, are also the ones who claim men are lovely to them.
Well its a bit of a chicken and egg isnt it? You no doubt claim you champion men because they're nice to you, but equally they will be nice to you because you're saying all the things they want to hear. Conforming women, be that in their appearance, sexuality, behaviour or attitudes will almost always meet a lot more 'nice' men than those who for whatever reason don't tow the line, criticise and call them out.

Only women don't want war.

Tell that to the men who had white feathers chucked at them by women for not going to be cannon fodder.

@5128gap - I think the "not all men" crowd contribute to a problem which is deep in society. That is that make violence is common, and often against women and children in the home. These crimes are awful - they ruin our society. Too often it's women who really put down others who have been victims of male violence. It is invalidating and rather cruel. There is a lot of it on Mumsnet. Mostly I assume by women who have never faced a problem; they seem unempathetic.

From what I've seen, there's been very few posts (if any) demonising men-but if we can't have a discussion about attitudes that men hold (again-as a class, not as individuals) towards women-we're never going to get anywhere.

Listen-you can Not My Nigel all you like-but someone's Nigel is doing it. Someone's Nigel is sexually harassing women in the workplace, in bars, down the street.

We can also all admit that we probably know many decent men who wouldn't hurt/berate/abuse/harass women. That doesn't negate the point that, as a class, men tend to be, statistically speaking, perpetrators of such crimes and getting yourself in a twist about that and declaring any woman who points it out as "professional victims" isn't going to change the reality-no matter how much you want it to.

I'm taking an extreme example here (and come for me all you want, I don't care) but BTK. Dennis Radar-a US serial killer. To his family, he was a devoted family man. At work, he was the guy women asked to walk them to their cars at night because he made them feel safe.

He was also the guy who would tie people up, torture them and brutally murder them. He was someone's Nigel.

Of course, that's a very extreme example. It's also an example how you can live with someone, work with them for many years and not know a single thing about their true nature.

That wasn't to demonise men-or to say all men are psychopaths-however, it is to point out that even though the man in your life may treat you like your equals and be really good to you-that doesn't mean that when you're not looking, he's not treating or viewing other women horrendously.

And @5128gap excellent post. That is precisely the point. Men can be nice and lovely to women who toe the line and say all the things they want to hear-but it'd be telling to see their reaction if the women stopped doing that.

@clairelouwho exactly, well said. It's the inability to see the bigger picture. As a SEX class males are problematic, more so than females.

Also I know many cunty Nigel's whose wives/mother's would swear down they were one of the good ones. And it doesn't have to be as extreme as murder/rape.

Some evidently do, but I certainly wouldn’t say all.
I often think that really seriously misogynists are secretly afraid of women, in case they prove to be cleverer or more capable than them. (Men in their eyes are supposed to be superior in everything.)
And/or they hate them because they’ve been very plainly/rudely rejected by women in a sexual/chatting up context. And their egos can’t take it.

I mean, I am attractive. I guess that does give me an unfair advantage, attractive people do better in life. However, to paint me and other women who have not experienced such awful men as pliant handmaidens is insulting. Perhaps there is an element of getting what treatement you'll expect. I can't help be reminded of the old fable about the two men coming to a new town:
A man is tending his garden when a man walks by. The man tending his garden hails the walking man , who says he is going to move into the town. He says 'tell me, friend, what are the people of this town like? My old town is full of awful people, rude men, swindlers, pickpockets, vile people of every description'. The man tending his garden says 'I very much fear that this town is the same'. Downcast, the first man tips his hat and goes on. A little later, another man passes the garden, and says 'Tell me, friend, what are the people of this town like? It is with regret that I leave my old town, which is full of delightful, friendly people, but I'm willing to give this new place a try'. 'Don't worry', responded the gardener. 'This town is just and friendly and warm as the one you left'.

Exactly. This idea of women as peaceful sweethearts is so ridiculous as to be risible.

It’s also how men separate and class women in order to at best belittle and judge and at worse abuse…

Like I’ve got a great wife because she’s never slept around, she’s not like other women so I’ll treat her well.

My female colleague is great because she’s agreeable but my female boss is a bitch because she’s assertive.

Sarah Everard didn’t deserve what happened to her but to some extent the prostitutes who are regularly raped and murdered kind of had it coming…

Of course all men treat some women well…