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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - violin teacher dumped us on the first lesson

798 replies

DesperateSusans · 29/02/2024 17:28

We are new to the area. My daughter (age 7) desperately wants to learn the violin. We asked at her new school and they gave us the information about the local violin teacher who teaches in the local schools and privately.

we contacted the teacher and arranged the lesson. Everything went really well, DD loved it and the teacher was great with us.

I have since received a text message from the teacher which I am confused about.

something along the lines of - great to meet you earlier, on reflection I think a different teacher may be more suited to working with DD. I immediately asked her what she meant. She then went on to say that she felt uncomfortable about the amount of questions I asked with regards to her qualifications, experience and teaching methods and made her feel uncomfortable! Apparently all of this is on her website (I hadn’t looked) and she felt like I was interviewing her!

surely this can’t be right? Isn’t it normal for parents to ask questions when they engage the services of a private tutor?

OP posts:
AngelinaFibres · 29/02/2024 20:57

DesperateSusans · 29/02/2024 17:31

Ok, I understand , but still, surely it’s perfectly normal to find out about someone who is working with your child??

She probably picked up that you would be one of 'those' parents and decided to get out at the start.

TheProvincialMusicTeacher · 29/02/2024 20:57

OP, I'm a music teacher and I'm completely bemused by the responses you're getting. The questions you've asked should be no problem ( though I agree it's better to read up as much as possible on the teacher first, and ask questions in a phone call beforehand, not in front of the child. I agree also that tone and manner are important!)

But generally - I have to say that all those saying 'the school recommended her, of course she's qualified' are incredibly naïve. Likewise those saying 'you don't need a conservatoire-level training to teach young children'. In most other European countries it's the norm for practically all instrumental teachers to have that level of training, precisely because giving young beginners a good grounding is hard; it can cause massive problems later which can be hard to remedy if the child learns poor technique at the start; and it's generally possible to spot from a fairly early stage who's getting good teaching and who isn't- and I'm referring here to what you might call 'normal' children as opposed to the prodigy who practises a couple of hours per day from age 6.

There are a huge numbers of poorly-trained teachers in this country, because we have no expectation here of anything better - just look at the numbers of parents on this thread who seem to think it's a positive that they've no idea of their child's teacher's qualifications. Schools generally have no idea how to gauge whether an instrumental teacher can give a good grounding or not, so a recommendation from a school isn't necessarily worth what you'd think. Parents likewise often assume a child is making 'appropriate 'progress, when they might be being entirely inappropriately grounded. It's easy to think all this is unimportant, but poor teaching removes options from gifted children later on.

Also, poor teaching in generally still pretty expensive, and I wouldn't be willing to waste the money, myself. It's hard for parents in your position - in your place, I'd be able to get all the information I need via my network, and I have all sorts of means of gauging whether I'd regard someone as suitable to teach my own children (and I would be picky about this) but most parents don't have the background or contacts to make these type of judgments - but are still entitled to want to have their child appropriately taught.

Advice for the future: I'd tend to let this teacher go. She may be good, I don't know, but I'd be wary of a teacher who responds with 'I've been teaching for 30 years so I must know what I'm doing' - that's simply not true at all, and all good teachers should know this. Next time read up on the teacher first. What sort of training have they had? If they only have grade 8, they're not terribly advanced themselves, and chances are they don't have a sufficient level of technique to impart good basic technique to young beginners.

Don't bother asking about grades - for a start, it's not true that ABRSM is necessarily 'the best', and in any case, many really good teachers are not so keen on grades anyway. I'd be more impressed with a teacher who said, 'I don't tend to put them in for anything below grade 5 and I can prepare for whichever board suits her strengths best. But really, what I'm teaching is technique and performance skills, and if she stays, she'll get lots of performance opportunities and pick up grade 8 somewhere along the way'.
It should be fine to have this conversation (though I agree that tone, manner, and time and place are important, and it's possible you've got these slightly wrong!).
If you find someone who seems good and whose pupils do well, ask to be put on their waiting list.

Calliopespa · 29/02/2024 21:02

Geebray · 29/02/2024 17:35

I bet the violin teacher can also tell that you're going to be the type of parent who demands to know why little Jemima didn't get a distinction in her Grade 1...

I think it is something along these lines.

Its kind of unspoken etiquette in the music teaching world that you approach a teacher because you’ve heard of them through word of mouth ( which you had) and decided they are the teacher you would like.

With no disrespect to your daughter’s musical potential, she’d be a bit of a disaster if she couldn’t teach a 7 year old ( beginner?!) . You’ve essentially implied you thought she might not be satisfactorily up to that mighty challenge which means either a)you have gigantically inflated notions of how great your DD is/ is destined to be ; or b) you really felt she might be so bad that she couldn’t manage that ( in which case there would hardly be a teaching job she would be up to).

I just think you’ve come across as high maintenance. I realise you were probably trying to look interested.

Caerulea · 29/02/2024 21:03

I know more about my son's piano teacher's dog & her husband's food allergies than I do her qualifications.

She also offered for me to sit in but I know that's never actually a good thing for the kid, so I sit in the car outside till he's done. It's my understanding that 1 on 1 tutors don't like the parents sitting in the class at all, it affects the child's approach.

RobinHood19 · 29/02/2024 21:07

I think ABRSM is better

Out of curiosity, why do you think ABRSM is better? Are you a professional musician? Do you have any direct experience with either exam board? (Is it because it has the world “Royal” in it? I’ve met people who would only send their adult children to a Royal conservatoire or to do ABRSM exams - which by the way, have a slightly outdated examination method and a terrible website and processes to navigate…)

I just think it’s important to work towards exams and it’s a sense of achievement to pass them.

Again, do you have any experience with this process? It’s a sense of achievement to you or your DD? How do you know it would suit her? As someone who works in this type of industry - some kids find that sense of achievement in exams. Others in performing at festivals. Being in string club at school. Doing competitions. Playing / singing in their local church services. Few of those kids would have made it past the first lesson if their parent had started asking questions about any of it.

Lesson learnt now, OP. Next time you find a teacher please treat them as you would like to be treated in the workplace. With the respect and dignity they deserve.

Parkerpenny · 29/02/2024 21:07

I'm a music teacher and have had a parent who asked a lot of questions initially but in the end, has turned out to be very supportive.

Another initially very nice parent has turned out to mess me around.

You can never quite tell how it will work out but I do think trusting instincts is usually a good call. (I don't think I am very intuitive in that way though)

Rattatoille · 29/02/2024 21:07

@DesperateSusans
"I can't see what I did wrong"

Really? With all the safeguarding these days. the checks will have already been made, she probably felt insulted, you sound obsessed. You are not this music teacher's manager, don't blame her for not taking you & your daughter on.

Nagado · 29/02/2024 21:08

DesperateSusans · 29/02/2024 20:34

Explain that I didn’t mean to be intense and domineering- I was just out of my comfort zone.

I really wish I’d not been so impulsive and taken the time to think about this before arranging the lesson. I’ve just come across her on you tube - she’s amazing 🥲

I’m such a fool and my daughter hates me for embarrassing her in the lesson

I think that this is a situation that you’re not necessarily equipped to deal with very well. You completely messed up the first lesson by rushing in so please, please listen to everyone telling you not to phone her, but to write an email. If you phone her, you will make the situation a million times worse and you will never get a tutor for your DD.

All you need to write is something like ‘I’m so sorry if I came across as overbearing during our conversation. I’ve taken your comments on board and completely understand how I would have come across as ‘that parent’, even though it was unintentional. I have an absolutely mortified seven year old who is desperate to learn with you and I’d like to ask if you’d be willing to reconsider your decision not to take her on. I’d be happy to have a trial period of your choosing if that would help?’ And if she still declines or doesn’t respond then don’t bother her again. If she does give you another chance, then go in there with a smile on your face, thank her for the opportunity and keep very, very quiet.

eta I crossed posts with your update about sending the email. Good decision.

VerduraWeb · 29/02/2024 21:08

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Calliopespa · 29/02/2024 21:09

DesperateSusans · 29/02/2024 17:31

Ok, I understand , but still, surely it’s perfectly normal to find out about someone who is working with your child??

Yes it is, of course fine. I just think if it’s getting comfortable with her manner you do that quietly not via interview; and for the standard as a teacher you reslkg need to do that by word of mouth/ before approaching. Ultimately someone can have wonderful qualifications but be terrible at teaching.

Glitterblue · 29/02/2024 21:09

I’m a piano teacher and have never had this - I wouldn’t like it at all if any parent grilled me like that! People tend to just approach me and ask if I have any spaces, usually they’re recommended by others, I arrange a lesson and do that first lesson as a trial so we can kind of get to know each other, I can figure out what kind of teaching method I’ll use (if you asked me what teaching method I used, I’d find it pretty interfering - I use different methods depending on the age, personality and any prior knowledge). Usually the parents just deliver the child or if I go to their house, they might be in a room nearby but they’ve only ever chatted about how the lesson went rather than questioning me.

Most of my pupils are 5-9 and just starting out, and the parents are just happy if the child is enjoying the lessons and making progress.

GlitteryEars · 29/02/2024 21:10

Alwaysalwayscold · 29/02/2024 17:30

Clearly you came across like you were interrogating her. Offer your apologies and try and save it for the sake of your DD.

Or the violin teacher is insecure

Bananabreadandstrawberries · 29/02/2024 21:10

Hmmm…are you foreign, OP?!
Your level of intensity and demanding questions doesn’t sound culturally appropriate.

First lesson the important thing is for teacher student relationship to form, and your interrogation in front of your daughter undermines teacher authority. Totally inappropriate.

theduchessofspork · 29/02/2024 21:10

DesperateSusans · 29/02/2024 17:40

Oh I wasn’t planning on leaving my child with her, she had said it was perfectly fine for me to sit in on lessons- in fact she encouraged it so I could help with her homework

but yes, although she was very pleasant she clearly had an issue with questions

It also seems a bit unusual to sit in, and not good for your daughter.

amusedbush · 29/02/2024 21:12

Ulysees · 29/02/2024 20:31

Just tell her you're ND and apologise even if you aren't. An awful lie but it's better for dd not to be so sad. I'd do it by text or email. Grovel. And stop being so intense.

This might be the worst advice I’ve ever seen.

As a ND person with a lifetime of being misinterpreted, instantly disliked, bullied, and referred to as intense/too much/hard work, I can’t tell you how offensive this is.

wronginalltherightways · 29/02/2024 21:13

Having read your posts, I can see why she declined to teach your daughter. I hope you've learned something from the experience, and the responses on this thread, and if you're lucky, maybe your email has hit the right note and she'll agree to teach your daughter.

Music lessons should be enjoyable, first and foremost. Your dd is 7; don't already be focused on 'a purpose' and 'exams', ffs.

jimmyhill · 29/02/2024 21:14

You thought you were interviewing her. But she was interviewing you.

You misunderstood supply and demand.

Noseybookworm · 29/02/2024 21:15

DesperateSusans · 29/02/2024 17:35

Well I’m not sure how to find out without asking!

I asked about her qualifications and she looked a bit put out! She told me them (there were a lot), and then said ‘I wouldn’t be teaching in schools if I wasn’t qualified’

I asked about her experience and she said ‘over 30 years so I think I know what I’m doing’

I can’t see what I did wrong!

It sounds like something about your manner got her back up! If she's a peripatetic music teacher she obviously will be qualified and experienced and DBS checked. She's perfectly within her rights to choose not to teach your daughter if she doesn't feel comfortable with you.

Iwasafool · 29/02/2024 21:16

Geebray · 29/02/2024 17:34

Yes. Which is why she has a website.

She can spot a potentially difficult parent, and no doubt doesn't need the hassle.

So if you aren't on the internet your kids can't have violin lessons? How odd.

Soupit · 29/02/2024 21:18

I imagine she got the vibe that you are a pushy parent who would never be satisfied and would complain or interfere. Good music teachers are like gold dust and not short of pupils.

VerduraWeb · 29/02/2024 21:18

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supersop60 · 29/02/2024 21:19

Geebray · 29/02/2024 17:41

"Times to get to grades" will have been a huge red flag. As I said, she can tell the types who will be demanding to know why little Jemima didn't get a Distinction in their Grade I exam...

Edited

Oh God yes.

Moonlightdust · 29/02/2024 21:21

My son’s piano teacher was in her 70s and had clearly been teaching for a long time like your violin teacher. I think I may have asked out of interest how long she’d been teaching, but I would’ve never dreamed to ask her what her qualifications were. (TBH there were many certificates in her music room anyway). I had been on her website and read her methods used . It had on her website she was DBS checked - I sat in with my son on all lessons anyway as she encouraged me to. Again I don’t think it would’ve been appropriate to directly ask her this to her face.
Didn't the school recommend her to you - I think I would’ve felt interrogated too and told you the same. Sorry.

fleurneige · 29/02/2024 21:22

Agree or disagree, I'm afraid she has made her choice and it is her prerogative. Very sought after, so she can pick her students, for whatever reasons she chooses.

feathermucker · 29/02/2024 21:24

It's easy to see the exact point on this thread that you thought....,"Ah, ok!".

Take this as a lesson. Let your daughter enjoy the instrument without the performance parenting........and I say this as a person who, in the past, has done similar. It's far better and more relaxed for both you and your daughter to take a less intense approach.

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