Page 24 | Affair and left penniless

Newchapterbeckons · 2024-02-27T08:56:54+00:00

Please advise. My sister is with me now, her partner of 20 years has just left her and the children for another woman. They live in a house jointly owned, but my sister has no other assets or savings, she hasn’t worked for nearly two decades as she supported him and raised their dc. Four children aged 13-19. He has moved out, and has put the house on the market, she is shell shocked and inconsolable. What happens now? He has threatened to cut her off and stop paying for food, petrol and bills. Can he do that? We had no idea he controlled all of the money in this way. She is devastated. What can I do to support her? She has no money for legal advice, but has had the free hour. For 15 years we have asked her to get married for this very reason, and he refused. Can anyone advise what she can do.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 27/02/2024 16:08

atotalshambles · 27/02/2024 13:19

I am a SAHM with kids of a similar age. I think some of these responses are less than helpful. It is only in the last few years that there has been reasonable adjustments by employers for women. So many women with children under 18 have been in a tricky position with employers not offering any flexibility at all. I had a senior management role when i first became pregnant but would not have been able to return to part-time or with any adjustments. My team (of men) refused to work with a part-timer and my boss ignored my emails for months. In the end I was given a career break of 2 years . When i returned I was expected to stay late every evening even though my nanny had to leave at 7. My husband has always begged me to stay at home because his job (partner level global organisation) means he has to be on call at all times and wouldn't have the capacity to help me. Being a SAHM mum has meant that he is able to travel on a whim, take on extra work, get promoted etc... I undertake voluntary work using my work skills and will return to work at some point but I will never achieve what I could have achieved when I had my first child. This was a joint decision. Some of my peers carried on with 2 'big jobs' but they either had strong family support or amazing nannies who were able to work hours. Some peers don't see their kids that much but their children are very independent and resilient. Other children don't cope as well. Overall , in my experience, someone normally steps back and either stops work, works part-time or changes jobs to a less 'career demanding ' role.

Glad it worked for you. It is risky though, although less so if married. Not sure I would have or could have accepted that their job meant they could never get back for 7.

godsbehavingbadly · 27/02/2024 16:09

I can't help any further and you've had lots of sound advice but I'd just like to say your BIL is a complete conniving shit and I hope he gets his comeuppance some day soon! He's obviously been planning this carefully for years. Did your sister suspect nothing at all? When she's over the worst of the shock she needs to be realistic, determined and smart. Don't expect any fairness or consideration from him!

You are being a brilliant sister but can only support her for so long as you live some distance away and have your own life to manage. Her kids need to know the reality and step up with housework etc whilst pulling together as a family.

taylorswift1989 · 27/02/2024 16:11

Hippobot · 27/02/2024 15:58

Having split up from my ex when our child was under 2 years old and I wasn't working but named on the mortgage and deeds to our joint home, I have had to do a lot of sorting out of my finances. This is my advice from my recent experience:

• report him to the police for economic/financial abuse. Speak to domestic abuse/women's charities for advice on this and see if there is any free legal advice or support to make the case to keep the property for her and the children. If this is not possible or cost prohibitive then a quick sale of the house is important.

• get on with selling the house asap. Whilst your sister is named on the mortgage and deeds she is liable for the debt to the mortgage company if he disappears and stops paying it. She also needs him to sign off the joint deeds upon sale. She is not entitled to certain financial or housing options as she has a mortgage/property so the sooner she gets shot of it the better. It opens up more options to her and maybe gets her some money from the sale. Given that her ex has been prepared to financially abuse her and shaft her like this, the fewer legal/financial ties she has to him the better.

• get her to apply for the child benefit and explain that the claimant (her ex) has moved out of the home and is not living with/providing for the children and therefore shouldn't continue to receive the child benefit (this is important as by not claiming the child benefit your sister has missed out on all those years of national insurance contributions and so will not qualify for the maximum state pension amount. She needs to be getting this sorted as a priority. It won't take long to do).

• She should apply to CMS as soon as possible. There is an option to ask them to pursue her ex for the money straight away on the grounds that she doesn't believe he will agree to pay it through mediation etc and she can tell them there have been decades of financial abuse. It will mean she loses a small percentage of the money as a fee but that's better than getting no money because he refuses her and means she doesn't need to deal with him directly.

• next apply for universal credit. This is done online and doesn't take long. She can put that there has been financial abuse and him leaving her destitute has caused a major acute depression. It will be a while before the health element is assessed so initially she may need to attend the job centre and agree to look for work. If she is still depressed by the time the health assessment happens she may be entitled to more money if they deem she is unfit for work or work related activity on account of the depression. Although it may seem daunting, contact with a job coach through the job centre/universal credit application will be helpful as she will find out about free training courses etc to support her back into work after this long a gap.

• make a GP appointment to discuss the depression so she can access support but also so there is a record of it for her universal credit claim (though she doesn't need to consent to them accessing her medical records she can ask for a sick note from the doctor to cover her claim initially until she is able to look for work/or she has been assessed by universal credit for the health element).

• if she lives in Scotland she can apply to the Scottish Government for the Scottish Child Payment. This is £100 a month per child in addition the the UK government Child Benefit. There are other benefits and help she may be eligible for. They are all explained on the Scottish Government website where you can also do the applications.

• do an application for social housing. Even though she has a home at the moment, she can still do the forms and explain there has been financial abuse and her house is going to be sold. There is probably a box to tick on the council housing online application for domestic abuse. Tick this as economic abuse comes under that umbrella. Ask the council housing department about housing association properties and mid market rents and apply for all of the above.

• alert the mortgage company, utility companies and council tax department about the situation in case he stops paying the bills. It's good to have this on record so they can advise your sister of how they can help her, should he stop paying the bills and she gets left with them. Being proactive is far easier than reacting to getting cut off etc or getting into arrears. Once her universal credit application is in the system it will help her as these agencies can talk to each other to back up what she's saying. There are crisis grants available from some councils and she can also request an advance payment from universal credit.

Once the house is sold she could effectively be homeless with 3 children in school so would be a priority for housing (if there is no/little capital from sale of house).

There may be other benefits she will be entitled to although I think the cost if living payments have finished now.

Good luck to her. It all seems a lot and very daunting but things will start to come together. Take any financial/housing help you can as a start. It's not a forever situation but these avenues of help will get her set up on her own and allow a clean break from depending on him. Then she can make her own money in due course. Just deal with the situation as it presents itself now. Best of luck to you both. Good on you for helping her out - wish I had had a sister like you.

Really helpful post. Just quoting it in case OP misses in among other comments.

Elleherd · 27/02/2024 16:12

Just to say she is not entitled to PIP.
Condition needs to have existed for 3 months before a claim will be considered, and expected to last another 9 (disregarding rules around terminal diagnosis)

notwavingbutdrowning1 · 27/02/2024 16:13

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 27/02/2024 15:34

I know the definition of coerce thanks - don't need you to tell me.

It's a shame really isn't it, that I was brought up by my DM and her DM (my nana) to never rely on a man for anything and always to have my own job/income.

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Yeah, no, you don’t know the definition of coerce. If you did you would know that saying ‘letting herself be coerced’ is as nonsensical as saying ‘letting herself be hit by a falling rock’.

Suchagroovyguy · 27/02/2024 16:14

ClimbingTheCupboards · 27/02/2024 15:29

The ignorance is truly astounding, isn't it. "Letting" herself be coerced. Jesus wept.

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The sanctimonious posters criticising and blaming a victim of abuse for the actions of an abusive man have been a grim addition to one of the saddest threads I’ve seen in a long time.

I’m trying to take comfort from the fact that it is arguably a good thing that they are totally ignorant of male abuse. I just wish they’d leave the bossy smugness out of it, though.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 27/02/2024 16:16

Ok, I’ve read all of the thread and tried to keep these questions to myself but I can’t.

Skip the replies I’ll just assume you all will call me a horrible and heartless person.

What did she (and any woman in the same potential position) think would happen? C’mon it’s 2024… 20 years ago was 2004 not 1904. Nothing about this situation was a surprise. Yes it absolutely sucks that he found a new girlfriend and left her and the kids, but men have been doing the same since the dawn of time.

She was 30 years old when she entered this relationship so not some doe eyed teenager. Why don’t people take precautions for this eventuality? What did she do to protect her kids from this?

Now for practical advice for her and anyone who is in this same precarious position.

Keep (or start) working…
protect yourself financially by marriage, regular ‘payments’ from the working partner to a solely owned and separate account , or other means
Have access to all financial resources, have regular reviews of accounts
Educate yourself- personal finance, applicable laws, etc
Keep your skills active and fresh.
Anticipate it will all come crashing down around you and you will be responsible for picking up the pieces and supporting yourself.
And teach your kids how to provide for and protect themselves from this kind of thing.

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 27/02/2024 16:16

I think he fits into that bracket of b***d man who has planned this from the start. He has used one woman to birth and raise his children with no intention of a permanent relationship with them. Once he feels the kids are old enough he has buggered off, and cares not one jot what happens to her.
Your D Sis needs to find her fight OP. Not to contest the split or save the house, but for herself. Her future, and that of the kids. Sounds like he is brainwashing and gaslighting them, too, so she needs to be prepared for a lot of flying crap. She needs to put one foot infront of the other, and move forward slowly. It will all sort out, in the end.

Suchagroovyguy · 27/02/2024 16:17

mydrivingisterrible · 27/02/2024 15:38

I'm a bit unnerved how many people are believing this..........I think we need to start teaching law at secondary school

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I think financial planning, nutrition and family planning need to be part of the curriculum. Essential life skills that are completely neglected.

ClimbingTheCupboards · 27/02/2024 16:17

saltinesandcoffeecups · 27/02/2024 16:16

Ok, I’ve read all of the thread and tried to keep these questions to myself but I can’t.

Skip the replies I’ll just assume you all will call me a horrible and heartless person.

What did she (and any woman in the same potential position) think would happen? C’mon it’s 2024… 20 years ago was 2004 not 1904. Nothing about this situation was a surprise. Yes it absolutely sucks that he found a new girlfriend and left her and the kids, but men have been doing the same since the dawn of time.

She was 30 years old when she entered this relationship so not some doe eyed teenager. Why don’t people take precautions for this eventuality? What did she do to protect her kids from this?

Now for practical advice for her and anyone who is in this same precarious position.

Keep (or start) working…
protect yourself financially by marriage, regular ‘payments’ from the working partner to a solely owned and separate account , or other means
Have access to all financial resources, have regular reviews of accounts
Educate yourself- personal finance, applicable laws, etc
Keep your skills active and fresh.
Anticipate it will all come crashing down around you and you will be responsible for picking up the pieces and supporting yourself.
And teach your kids how to provide for and protect themselves from this kind of thing.

I can't imagine you really did RTFT or you'd have seen what you've said here has already been said by multiple other posters.

BibbleandSqwauk · 27/02/2024 16:18

@Naptrappedmummy way to minimise the situation "her boyfriend cheated, it happens". How about, "her life partner of 20+ years with whom she has three children and upon whom her and their entire life infrastructure rested on (rightly or wrongly is irrelevant) has very suddenly upped and left with someone else, bought property in his own name, is absenting himself for weeks, refusing to meet current pressing expenses and is doing the classic "script" of making her the bad guy". That's a little closer to the truth so not unreasonable if she needs a few days or weeks to start bringing her head up and engaging. If she needs some financial support in the short to medium term to do that, so be it.

Her kids, whilst teens, are all but 1 still at school and have been used to a SAHM. Likewise, they will adapt but their world has also been turned upside down and of she goes out now and gets a FT job down the pit as some seem to be suggesting they will suddenly have another parent effectively disappear - come home to an empty house, be much more self sufficient, just when THEY also need huge support and reassurance. This woman doesn't know which way is up right now. The kindness of a few months breather to get shit together is not really much to ask.

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 27/02/2024 16:18

She can contact HMRC re the Child Benefit. He is claiming it fraudulently now.

urbanbuddha · 27/02/2024 16:18

yes, he absolutely can leave her "high and dry" if, as seems to be the case he has been careful with how to arrange matters

No, he can’t.
He persuaded her to sell her flat, gave her no details or access to the accounts, may then have bought himself another flat, is claiming child benefit while she looks after the children, and has left her without a penny. It is financial abuse. Which is a crime.

This has got nothing to do with rings on fingers.

timetochangethering · 27/02/2024 16:18

I think you need to prepare yourself for chasing him legally for the money "back" for her flat. If he is the person he is seeming that will have been moved into his own flat/properties leaving a large mortgage on this house. I'm sure some of it could be recouped, not in any kind of common-law way, but in a business deal way (as in "I invested £X in property A and it was removed and invested in property B which I don't have ownership of")

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 27/02/2024 16:19

HumanRightsAreHumanRights · 27/02/2024 10:34

She needs to contact Child Benefit ASAP & make it clear that all the children reside with her not with him & that it should be paid directly to her.

Child benefit also gives Class 3 pension credits, so it should ALWAYS have been going to her.

pensions credit for under 12, so she has lost 12 years minimum of pensions credits she should have had.

Edited

It is phenomenal that people don't know this stuff.

EverybodyLTB · 27/02/2024 16:21

I think you’re doing brilliantly, OP. Just again will reiterate get the financial abuse recorded down somewhere. You’ve done amazingly already egging the UC claim rolling and GP booked in. Reporting abuse is important for the eventual paper trail, and is as much proof as you can begin to establish at this stage.

Re the whole “she let herself get coerced” talk, come on now. It’s a form of psychological abuse and is in its very nature difficult to see it happening until hindsight comes along. I’m sick of women being dragged down by shitty men and then getting blamed for not realising this will happen, it’s victim blaming at its finest. We do have personal responsibility of course, but what a shame to have your life smashed up because you believed in and loved the wrong person.

Re getting married protects you, not exactly. My EHX fucked off and made my life an absolute nightmare by not cooperating, not seeing the kids and just doing lots of shitty things in general. You can’t just snap your fingers and someone comes to hold them to account, and him now not seeing his kids whatsoever means nothing to anyone, he doesn’t pay extra for not seeing them. Marriage didn’t help me, in fact it kept me dealing with my vile EXH much longer than I wanted to be.

I have also seen first hand the catatonic state some of my friends have been in after being left high and dry. It’s like there’s been a murder or something, a very unique psychological trauma that I’ve seen played out a few times now. Some of my loveliest and longest friends have become shadows for months on end, neglecting their kids and reverting to almost baby-like creatures, swinging between sobbing and raging. It’s wounding like nothing I’ve ever thought possible. Having seen it so many times, I really sympathise but I am also one of the ones in this thread going ‘come on now, crack on’ because there’s nothing else to be done other than swim for shore. The light at the end of the tunnel has to be aimed for!

FWIW I cracked on immediately after my EHX disappeared, took great care of myself and my kids, didn’t cry, got what needed to be done, done. About 9 months later, I was having panic attacks, not sleeping, and seeing things, and I got diagnosed with C-PTSD. So, even the ones who can “get on with it”, don’t necessarily escape the deep level of trauma caused by being abandoned, talked about like shit, slandered to your kids and worrying about being homeless and your children starving.

Anyways, again, well done OP. Helping someone through this degree of trauma is not for the faint of heart, you’re amazing!

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 27/02/2024 16:22

@Newchapterbeckons I had 4 kids as a single mum and did it all. Worked full time. She needs to be encouraged to do this stuff, not enabled to continue to absolve her self of the responsibility. You can guide, advise and assist, but ultimately, she has to take the reins first her own life now.

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 27/02/2024 16:23

Newchapterbeckons · 27/02/2024 10:42

Thank you for your replies. Honestly your support has been a lifeline.
He has just texted me to say this is not his fault, she has severe mental health issues and he couldn’t take it anymore! Well she does now, thanks to him. So that is going to be his line ‘Mummy is illl’
she WAS completely fine before this bombshell.

"Mummy"?! The kids are teenagers!

Notheninkynonk · 27/02/2024 16:24

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 27/02/2024 16:23

"Mummy"?! The kids are teenagers!

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I'm 34 and still call my mum mummy.

Notheninkynonk · 27/02/2024 16:24

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 27/02/2024 16:22

@Newchapterbeckons I had 4 kids as a single mum and did it all. Worked full time. She needs to be encouraged to do this stuff, not enabled to continue to absolve her self of the responsibility. You can guide, advise and assist, but ultimately, she has to take the reins first her own life now.

And did you start doing this at 50 having not worked for 20 years?

BibbleandSqwauk · 27/02/2024 16:26

@baileybrosbuildingandloan plenty of (girls mostly though) teens I know call their mothers mummy at home, though not in front of their mates. I work in a private school - it is perhaps a demographic thing. OP - that's really despicable and entirely illogical...so HE can't cope with her severe mental health issues any more so he is doing the right thing by fucking off, leaving the kids with her to cope with what he can't and removing all financial support? Riiiight!

FleurDLease · 27/02/2024 16:27

Your sister should ascertain that there are no other other debts in her name apart from the mortgage. It's possible that the Ex could have taken out business loans, credit cards or a second mortgage and faked her signature. I suggest that she looks on the Experian website or Equifax on how to do this. It is very straightforward, only costs a few quid and she can get access to the report very quickly.

ZeroFucksGivenToday · 27/02/2024 16:27

@Newchapterbeckons get your sister to do her Experian credit check. The full check is around £15 (and cancel it straight away so it doesn't renew monthly). I do mine periodically and it tells me my mortgage company on there and what I still owe. It runs a couple of months behind so the figures will be slightly out, but will give you a good ball park. You can then work out the rough value of the house and you will have a ballpark for equity.

It takes around 10 mins to do.
It will also show any loans/credit cards in her name. So she can confirm she isn't liable for anything etc.

supercatlady · 27/02/2024 16:33

She should contact the Estate Agent and point out that the property is jointly owned and she doesn’t consent to the sale. That should take one pressure off in terms of viewings etc. yes, he may be able to take her to court to force a sale but let him do that.

Geebray · 27/02/2024 16:34

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 27/02/2024 16:19

It is phenomenal that people don't know this stuff.

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OP's sister doesn't seem to have bothered herself with any of this stuff.