Page 15 | Affair and left penniless

Newchapterbeckons · 2024-02-27T08:56:54+00:00

Please advise. My sister is with me now, her partner of 20 years has just left her and the children for another woman. They live in a house jointly owned, but my sister has no other assets or savings, she hasn’t worked for nearly two decades as she supported him and raised their dc. Four children aged 13-19. He has moved out, and has put the house on the market, she is shell shocked and inconsolable. What happens now? He has threatened to cut her off and stop paying for food, petrol and bills. Can he do that? We had no idea he controlled all of the money in this way. She is devastated. What can I do to support her? She has no money for legal advice, but has had the free hour. For 15 years we have asked her to get married for this very reason, and he refused. Can anyone advise what she can do.

MyWitHasReachedItsEnd · 27/02/2024 13:50

Contact the council for reduction in council tax too. If she is the only adult in the property.

Wintersgirl · 27/02/2024 13:51

In the laws eyes 5 years or more is classed as been married

No it doesn't, where do people get this idea from?

sepiatonic · 27/02/2024 13:52

atotalshambles · 27/02/2024 13:19

I am a SAHM with kids of a similar age. I think some of these responses are less than helpful. It is only in the last few years that there has been reasonable adjustments by employers for women. So many women with children under 18 have been in a tricky position with employers not offering any flexibility at all. I had a senior management role when i first became pregnant but would not have been able to return to part-time or with any adjustments. My team (of men) refused to work with a part-timer and my boss ignored my emails for months. In the end I was given a career break of 2 years . When i returned I was expected to stay late every evening even though my nanny had to leave at 7. My husband has always begged me to stay at home because his job (partner level global organisation) means he has to be on call at all times and wouldn't have the capacity to help me. Being a SAHM mum has meant that he is able to travel on a whim, take on extra work, get promoted etc... I undertake voluntary work using my work skills and will return to work at some point but I will never achieve what I could have achieved when I had my first child. This was a joint decision. Some of my peers carried on with 2 'big jobs' but they either had strong family support or amazing nannies who were able to work hours. Some peers don't see their kids that much but their children are very independent and resilient. Other children don't cope as well. Overall , in my experience, someone normally steps back and either stops work, works part-time or changes jobs to a less 'career demanding ' role.

I think your own post is one of the least helpful. You're married, Op's sister isn't. Therein lies the problem.

Dweetfidilove · 27/02/2024 13:53

atotalshambles · 27/02/2024 13:19

I am a SAHM with kids of a similar age. I think some of these responses are less than helpful. It is only in the last few years that there has been reasonable adjustments by employers for women. So many women with children under 18 have been in a tricky position with employers not offering any flexibility at all. I had a senior management role when i first became pregnant but would not have been able to return to part-time or with any adjustments. My team (of men) refused to work with a part-timer and my boss ignored my emails for months. In the end I was given a career break of 2 years . When i returned I was expected to stay late every evening even though my nanny had to leave at 7. My husband has always begged me to stay at home because his job (partner level global organisation) means he has to be on call at all times and wouldn't have the capacity to help me. Being a SAHM mum has meant that he is able to travel on a whim, take on extra work, get promoted etc... I undertake voluntary work using my work skills and will return to work at some point but I will never achieve what I could have achieved when I had my first child. This was a joint decision. Some of my peers carried on with 2 'big jobs' but they either had strong family support or amazing nannies who were able to work hours. Some peers don't see their kids that much but their children are very independent and resilient. Other children don't cope as well. Overall , in my experience, someone normally steps back and either stops work, works part-time or changes jobs to a less 'career demanding ' role.

The posts on the thread are helpfully pointing out that this is a precarious position.

You have the protection of marriage- not something the OP’s sister has, hence the predicament.

Even with marriage, you’re living on a hope and a promise that your husband doesn’t divorce you, after doing away with funds as this bastard has done. As you say, the women are coming out worse in the divorces around you, so ensure you are aware/protected and have funds of your own for legal support if shit hits the fan.

It behoves women in vulnerable/seemingly vulnerable positions to hope for the best, but always plan for the worst. There are too many women trapped in awful marriages and relationships because they have no means of their own.

Original poster

Newchapterbeckons · 27/02/2024 13:53

Rachelsthorns · 27/02/2024 13:29

I've recently been through a similar situation and it really does feel like the world is ending and will never be right again. Your sister is going to need time and patience to get over what has happened to her and her children.

I see you've already made an appointment with the doctor and that's good. Not only will the doctor be able to prescribe something to help her, he or she will also be able to counter that nasty claim of his that she had mental health issues.

Contact the mortgage company. They will be very helpful, the same with any other bills or debts she has.

Universal Credit will not demand she finds a job immediately if the doctor signs her off sick. She needs to put in her claim as soon as possible. Also contact Citizens Advice, who will advise what she is entitled to and where to get support.

Take one day at a time and don't try to do too much.
Housework can wait. Leave all the unimportant stuff, get the kids to help out, too. Of course they think he's wonderful at the moment, he's their dad. They'll very soon have a different opinion of him when they see what he's done.

I was amazed at how quickly mine came to terms with the situation and stood by me. For now, they'll look after her, not the other way around. She won't need it for long.

When she's feeling better, then she can look for work. Right now, her priorities are food, sleep and recovery.

I thought I'd never cope. I did, and I'm in a much better place than I was. She'll get through it with support. It was my sister who saved me, too.

I am sorry it has happened to you as well. She is devastated and blindsided.

There is no way she can work at the moment. Although of course she will at some point. She is awake all night, every night, as he isn’t there and they have spent the last 25 years or so sleeping side by side. Her clothes are hanging on her, she is experiencing such an awful sense of loss.Everything has gone overnight is how she feels.

He isn’t coming back but she would take him back in an instant, which is even sadder to me. But I understand it.

For those thinking you can be together for x years and you are legally protected, that’s a myth. A dangerous myth. We have been advised categorically that she doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on.

Dh has said it’s possible because her ex dp is self employed, he is likely to hide much of his earnings so she can’t expect too much from CM.

OP posts:

MNersSufferFromContextomy · 27/02/2024 13:54

I am very sorry to hear of your Sister's situation OP. Your sister must refuse to sell for now to protect her position. Decline viewings and firmly order all Estate Agents away from the property. He can't just sell from under her easily unless she allows it. Yes, there is a process he could follow to force it, but if this is financial abuse then it will complicate his position. If this is genuinely financial abuse, she may want to get the police involved and a solictor who may offer a service that doesn't cost the earth upfront. With children involved, courts may side more with your Sister. Shop around solictors and gather info. Look up the law on financial abuse. She will need your help with this. Your sister needs as much support and backup as possible, which includes you, the police and a solictor. Oh, and child support - get them involved too. Many women in your Sister's position have no money and therefore the police and many solictors should have a process to help with this situation.

I think a spouse in your Sister's position can refuse to sell their home for the time being until a solictor has assessed the situation and drawn up a proposal of a fair split, which doesn't always mean 50/50 - your Sister could possibly be awarded much more with children involved. Her husband is trying to force the sale to break away as cleanly as possible from his perspective. No house can be sold easily if both owners do not sign anything and a solicitor will not take an instruction to sell without your Sister's consent. She can really turn the tables on him and his sefish plans. Your sister can certainly slow down his plans whilst she gets her own ducks in order such as claiming benefits, landing a part time job, etc... she can dig her heals in. She does need to pull herself together though, with your help, hopefully she can. If you can get her to accept the situation and adopt a defiant stance, she can come out of this OK. Perhaps look up a local counselling charity, they often offer 8 weeks free counselling which could be a good start for helping your Sister accept the situation and begin dealing with it.

A recent poster says the husband can force a sale of the house, but with kids involved the courts may not favour him, so a solicitor is essential for your Sister's protection. He thinks he is holding all the cards and purse strings now when it is just between him and your Sister, but once your Sister get's everyone else involved, the tables will turn.

Other posters have suggested good ideas, so all benefits need to be applied for immediately, so perhaps a trip to the local citizens advice bureau and a phone call to Universal Credit would be a good start. A part time job would also help.

Good luck to your Sister and you OP.

Calderadust · 27/02/2024 13:54

He can't just sell the house if she doesn't agree. This would have to be forced through court.

thefallen · 27/02/2024 13:55

Women in danger of being seduced by the "trad wife" lifestyle need to pay attention to this. You can build your life around a man and he can take it from you in an instant. You can never, ever rely on another person to provide for you. Keep working even if it's hard.

Getting married isn't just about a white dress and a party, either; it gives you so much more security.

NonPlayerCharacter · 27/02/2024 13:56

Shinyandnew1 · 27/02/2024 13:49

my sister has legally put herself in a precarious position by not getting married, and basically there isn’t anything they can do.

So awful and sad for your sister, but I so wish more women knew this and were able to go into relationships fully armed with the facts. I have read so many posts where women say, ‘marriage is just a piece of paper, it means nothing’ and an equal number of posts like your sister’s where people haven’t worked for decades, didn’t get married and are totally screwed when their partner leaves. Marriage gives you protection and I think you need to know this when if you decide to go part time or quit work to look after kids.

I hope you can get her to the GP. To those posters saying the GP will ‘sign her off’-is that possible when she doesn’t currently work? Or is it called something else when you don’t have a job-ie to help her access other benefits?

I have read so many posts where women say, ‘marriage is just a piece of paper, it means nothing’

I don't think I've ever seen one where they weren't actually just parroting what their boyfriend was saying. If it means nothing, why won't he do it?

An alarming number still do the whole "I'm not getting married because I'm far too sensible to care about being a princess for a day" nonsense too. Oh, it makes you weep.

Shinyandnew1 · 27/02/2024 13:57

We have been advised categorically that she doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on.

Has the solicitor said the house needs to be sold and she can’t stop this happening?

Elleherd · 27/02/2024 13:57

Shinyandnew1 · Today 13:49

I hope you can get her to the GP. To those posters saying the GP will ‘sign her off’-is that possible when she doesn’t currently work? Or is it called something else when you don’t have a job-ie to help her access other benefits?

What we used to call a 'sick note' is now called a 'fit note.' Yes she can be signed off as 'unfit for work for x period' regardless of if she is currently in work or not.

BMW6 · 27/02/2024 13:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Was your relative able to claim Beneficial Interest because she had contributed towards mortgage repayments?

Dessertplease · 27/02/2024 13:58

If the house is jointly owned she can go to land registry and put a charge on the property to prevent the sale as she has a financial interest in it - I have done this, it's a simple process. She should go see a solicitor - you can get an hour or so free advice. He can't/shouldn't stop paying bills etc as it will reflect on his credit rating. As they have children a financial settlement will take into account their needs, she may well end up with a higher percentage of the property value, some of his pension etc. Definitely get legal advice straight away.

Zoreos · 27/02/2024 13:59

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 27/02/2024 13:48

Why are posters focusing on the OW? She is not relevant. She isn't going to live a life of misery either. The minute she finds that he's a twat, she'll be off. She has no qualms, links or need to be concerned, no matter how much people would prefer otherwise.

But she is irrelevant.

Of course she is relevant, she’s the sole reason he’s left the home and why she’s in this mess. Sadly you only have to be on Mumsnet a short while to see how easily people are manipulated into believing all sorts. So she probably will live a life of misery in fact because if she’s believed this man’s nonsense this far, she’s very obviously hook line and sinker for him. She’s just as guilty and desperate as him though. Clearly she’s not clever enough to work out if he will leave the person who’s mothered his children, supported his career and ran his home for the past 20 years destitute that he will 100% do it to her when it suits. People don’t willingly walk away from the fantasy that they create about people and this man is both devious and manipulative. You give these women far more credit than they’re owed. If you can kid yourself into breaking a home that easily you’re going to forgive the behaviour of other peoples moral corruption just as easily. She will suffer in her own way and she will deserve all she gets.

Carpediemmakeitcount · 27/02/2024 13:59

Newchapterbeckons · 27/02/2024 11:10

I am texting my niece. Not my sister. She got very drunk last night. Maybe that is to be expected.

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Tell her to stay where she is and you have it all in hand. I don't think it would be good for her to be home and watch her mother go through all that pain.

Calderadust · 27/02/2024 14:00

Marriage is incredibly important, but it can't save you alone. It is always best to have other investments/arrangements in place even if you are employed or a SAHM.

ClimbingTheCupboards · 27/02/2024 14:00

sepiatonic · 27/02/2024 13:52

I think your own post is one of the least helpful. You're married, Op's sister isn't. Therein lies the problem.

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There are plenty of posters on MN who claim that even being married doesn't offer protection.

TheFireflies · 27/02/2024 14:00

Newchapterbeckons · 27/02/2024 13:30

I have been going through everything with my sister. I have had to be quite girl with her, because I need her to get it together so we can work out what to do.

The free advice I am sorry to say was worse than useless. The woman was very judgemental and said my sister has legally put herself in a precarious position by not getting married, and basically there isn’t anything they can do. There appears to be no protection at all. Even in this day and age.

So anyone expecting help from that particular avenue may find it’s a dead end.

If legal advice is correct, it’s not useless. What would be useless is giving overly optimistic and incorrect advice to make people feel hopeful or better.

Legal advice is just that - advice on the legal position. It’s not therapeutic.

Grannyd47 · 27/02/2024 14:01

She is certainly entitled to benefits. These days it is Universal Credit. She needs to register for this AT ONCE, as they only pay from the day she claims; it will only be a little but she can then feed herself and the kids.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 27/02/2024 14:02

Zoreos · 27/02/2024 13:59

Of course she is relevant, she’s the sole reason he’s left the home and why she’s in this mess. Sadly you only have to be on Mumsnet a short while to see how easily people are manipulated into believing all sorts. So she probably will live a life of misery in fact because if she’s believed this man’s nonsense this far, she’s very obviously hook line and sinker for him. She’s just as guilty and desperate as him though. Clearly she’s not clever enough to work out if he will leave the person who’s mothered his children, supported his career and ran his home for the past 20 years destitute that he will 100% do it to her when it suits. People don’t willingly walk away from the fantasy that they create about people and this man is both devious and manipulative. You give these women far more credit than they’re owed. If you can kid yourself into breaking a home that easily you’re going to forgive the behaviour of other peoples moral corruption just as easily. She will suffer in her own way and she will deserve all she gets.

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He could just NOT have done this, not broken up his home, not broken his partner and children's hearts. OW is one of many and if it weren't her it would be another one. That is the crux of it so to focus on this OW is putting her in a position of 'importance' to the relationship. He is the one who could have stopped it all.

This thread really shouldn't be about the OW... they are, have always been, irrelevant.

ClimbingTheCupboards · 27/02/2024 14:02

thefallen · 27/02/2024 13:55

Women in danger of being seduced by the "trad wife" lifestyle need to pay attention to this. You can build your life around a man and he can take it from you in an instant. You can never, ever rely on another person to provide for you. Keep working even if it's hard.

Getting married isn't just about a white dress and a party, either; it gives you so much more security.

I always hear people say this but a male family friend of mine recently divorced his wife who had been a SAHP for over 20 years. She got the family home, half of another property they owned, half his pension, child maintenance and spousal maintenance.

Calderadust · 27/02/2024 14:03

@ClimbingTheCupboards In the case of being married to someone with nothing this would be true, otherwise not.

Rachelsthorns · 27/02/2024 14:03

Newchapterbeckons · 27/02/2024 13:53

I am sorry it has happened to you as well. She is devastated and blindsided.

There is no way she can work at the moment. Although of course she will at some point. She is awake all night, every night, as he isn’t there and they have spent the last 25 years or so sleeping side by side. Her clothes are hanging on her, she is experiencing such an awful sense of loss.Everything has gone overnight is how she feels.

He isn’t coming back but she would take him back in an instant, which is even sadder to me. But I understand it.

For those thinking you can be together for x years and you are legally protected, that’s a myth. A dangerous myth. We have been advised categorically that she doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on.

Dh has said it’s possible because her ex dp is self employed, he is likely to hide much of his earnings so she can’t expect too much from CM.

Show quote history

It will take time and the separation will help her realise that she doesn't need him.

My own situation was a bit different. The police took him away and it was only then that I realised the abuse I've been coping with all these years. Just at first, it was terrifying and I wasn't able to cope with the easiest task so don't be surprised at how incapacitated she seems right now. As she recovers, she'll be better able to face up to things and the doctor will help.

I'm still on meds, but I don't ever want him back now, though I was so frightened without him at first.
Just as well, because he can't come back. The police threw the book at him when they found the additional evidence of his abuse of me.

Thank you @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe !

EmeraldA129 · 27/02/2024 14:04

Get her to apply for universal credit online. You can do it on your phone if you’re with her. The application takes about 10 - 15 mins max but the claim only starts once the claim is in & generally isn’t backdated. Because her kids are older I expect she will be expected to look for work, but she should receive enough in the meantime to pay the bills (not the mortgage).

if there is a mortgage she can apply for a loan from universal credit to pay the interest on the mortgage & the government will attach it to the title of the property so they will be repaid once it is sold & therefore it will come equally off of funds due to your sister & her horrible ex. Universal Credit will send her info about this on her online journal once her claim is being processed.

EmeraldA129 · 27/02/2024 14:04

Get her to apply for universal credit online. You can do it on your phone if you’re with her. The application takes about 10 - 15 mins max but the claim only starts once the claim is in & generally isn’t backdated. Because her kids are older I expect she will be expected to look for work, but she should receive enough in the meantime to pay the bills (not the mortgage).

if there is a mortgage she can apply for a loan from universal credit to pay the interest on the mortgage & the government will attach it to the title of the property so they will be repaid once it is sold & therefore it will come equally off of funds due to your sister & her horrible ex. Universal Credit will send her info about this on her online journal once her claim is being processed.