My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

I think they've all been unreasonable here.
DB should not have encouraged DS to lie, but SIL is being unreasonable to point blank refuse permission when DS is clearly talented. You do the research, foster your kids interests.

Crucially going forward, DB should absolutely not allow OR encourage DS to live with DB full time- yes, SIL is being unreasonable but she's not being unkind. She has really valid concerns about her sons safety and DB absolutely needs to make it clear to DS their actions were wrong. It's not acceptable to decieve a co-parent. DB would be an absolute arse to allow his DS to go no contact about this.

I accept he's 14 and can make his own decisions but he needs both his parents. DB needs to show him the right way.

Don't underestimate how important this is to your DN. Banning him from playing will have a huge impact on his mental health, self esteem and relationship with his parents. He won't be part of the rugby team any more so he will lose a friendship group, a place he belongs and excels. He will be seen differently by everyone in his year once they know his mum stopped him playing. He will be hurt, angry, frustrated and humiliated. I know there are risks but MOST children who play rugby aren't seriously hurt.
I would advise SIL to speak to the school, the team coach and ask to see risk assessments. Then I think she should talk through her concerns with DN and his dad and agree on what they can do to allow him to continue playing with the lowest risk possible. Then she should give him a big hug, congratulate him for being made captain and remind him her concern comes from her love for him.

The lesson here is read your emails!

Your brother and nephew were wrong to hide his rugby from his ex, teaching the boy it's okay to lie to his mother is especially bad and undermining! While I don't agree with her stance on rugby, I can understand her fury at the deception. Unfortunately for her, your nephew is at an age where he can make his own decision and may well end up living with his dad full time if she digs her heels in. It's safe to say your brother has probably ruined their cooperative coparenting relationship though 🙁

So valuable lesson here is 'be overly emotional and have a temperature tantrum and cry and people have to do what you want' why should the dad be worried about her and her opinion after a stunt like this?
Should she not be worried about her relationship with her child? Of course not, as long as she gets what she wants!

I'll go against the grain and say I'm Team SIL on this one. Your DN made a decision at 11(!) and your DB facilitated a young boy lying and deceiving his mother for 2 years. Rightly or wrongfully she had a line in the sand, a boundary, and a group of boys/men conspired against her because they thought they knew better. It's actually quite shocking.

The point about the men in your family teaching dn to lie to his mum and see her opinion as less is spot on.

However Sil failed on 2 points. She agreed to the school despite knowing its strong rugby tradition and being wilfully blind to your dbs passion for the sport. It was always going to happen that dn would want to play rugby.
Then she ignored email. That’s on her. Why, if you’re so against rugby would you ignore an email titled rugby and leave that to your somewhat manipulative and domineering ex who has never taken notice of her opinion?

Anyway that ship has sailed. She has to deal with the consequences. No way would I stop him playing - I would absolutely go about making the relationship closer and that means being much more involved with ds passions. Think I’d rearrange the contact days tbh and get a bit of control back.

By deceiving his ex, your DB denied her any opportunity to negotiate or explain her views to her DS or to revisit her decision as he matured and his talent and passion for the sport emerged.

She may have stuck to her guns and damaged her relationship with her son but she would have at least had the opportunity to make that decision for herself with all the information available to her.

Your DB was paternalistic and dishonest. He has behaved immaturely to curry favour with his child.

He's asked what he should have done differently. He should have told his son that he wouldn't lie by ommission because it was important to be honest in a co-parenting situation and insisted that the mother was made aware that she had missed an email. His son would have been upset and probably angry with him but he would have recovered and may well have still had a positive relationship with his mother. Your DB has taken that away from them both.

Sounds a bit daft to me, is she going to micromanage his exposure to risk in other areas of his life too, e.g. learning to drive?

It’s called parenting.

I'm a teacher - not of sports but I do work in an independent school. Has she never read a school report in 3 years? Has she never attended parent's evenings? Has she never looked on schools social media or website? Did she say her son could not be used for promo photos? Did she never ask about his week? If she has done ANY of this, she would have known. She is not an involved parent at school.

But at some point you have to let them make their own decisions, surely?

If a 17yo wanted to have driving lessons there'd be nothing a parent could do to prevent it.

As a mum to a former rugby playing boy - he quit at start of secondary level tho, he’s now 18 so some time has passed

even then there was lots of training and activities around concussion, safer tackles and play. This is something that is ongoing.

The child is the one who wants to play, he’s driving this and he is old enough to decide. The mum can only inform herself about how the school is managing the sport and the safeguarding

she’s been very naive and stupid amounts of email unread is a joke, this WAS important and she should have seen it. She needs to mark everything READ, archive it and start again.

my ds dad is a Muslim (non practicing, but doesn’t eat pork) I never fed ds pork, nor ate pork myself when I was with his dad.

when we broke up, after a while, I decided that I wasn’t bound by his rules anymore and chose to eat pork. I didn’t serve pork to ds and explained why. He asked and asked . I explained to him (when he was old enough to make an informed decision) that IF one day he decides to take up his fathers religion, he will need to understand that he takes responsibility for having eaten pork. I told him that we’d not tell his dad.

those weren’t the words/phraseology I used, but it’s the gist.

when (after YEARS) his dad finally deigned to see his son, DS kind of accidentally on purpose let it slip. The world didn’t implode, but I stayed the facts and the process to ex, and that was that.

this rugby playing ds did hide this from his mother, but he’s not smoking crack or anything, he’s at a school where sport is massive and it’s vital he’s a part of the whole environment. I’m sure they all see it as a white lie.

This is a mess. I think the only thing that can be done is for DB, DN to apologise, and for DN to speak to his mother honestly about his passions, his talent, and get info from the school about mitigations and risk. Your DF also needs to apologise. Agree with PP that the two of them have shown him it is ok to lie to his mum, which is inexcusable, really.

Your SIL (and it may need explaining to her quite explicitly) needs to understand how excellent he must be at the sport to be A team captain in a rugby school and it is now at the point where she could potentially loose her son over it.

I also think it needs an explanation to DN that this duplicity has completely destroyed any amicable relationship his patents ever had.

I'm just baffled over two things.

ANY sport can come with injury. What was your DB plan when he was injured or had to go to A&E?

I get that she may have missed the original email asking for consent, but surely she has not missed 2.5 years of emails sending details of games, training, or kit requirements?

If it was me, and you feel you do need to get involved, I'd send the same message/letter/email to all adult parties (in you DF) and say that you will only help in constructive discussion. You don't want to get involved in various tit for tat.

In an ideal world, co- patenting would always be by agreement, but sometimes a veto is - needed, and your brother deliberately let his ex believe that he accepted her veto over rugby, then he deliberately misled her, had his son deliberately mislead her, and now she's being threatened with her 14 year old moving out if he doesn't get his way.

It's not a crazy, cranky thing to not want your son to play rugby. His life will not be destroyed if he plays soccer, or waterpolo or basketball instead.

I think sport is very important for young people, I played hockey all through school, it was non- negotiable for my DC that they played a team sport in school. But your brother is putting playing one particular sport over helping his son to grow up to be a decent human being.

To blackmail your SIL with losing contact with her son is despicable, what is that teaching your nephew - well the unimportance of women is the obvious one.

Your brother is a workaholic so what sort of home life will your nephew have? What if your nephew gets different interests, and decides at 16 that he'd rather be in a band/ play tennis/study hard than play serious schools rugby - could he tell his dad that, when your brother is making rugby so central to life that it's worth cutting your mother off if she won't support him, after deliberately lying about it to her.

You say your brother had a shot at high level soccer, but didn't make the grade. Is he compensating through his son? Your brother is a workaholic, and status is ofen a key driver fir workaholics (not their families wellbeing). Does he want his son to chase status too, and to rule the school on the rugby team? And to destroy his family relationships, just as your brother did?

I.think what your brother is doing is appalling.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She was told by the school 2.5 years ago.

I do think there been some duplicity and I'd have issues around one parent encouraging lying like this - but she was told - she could have asked more questions of school and child or ex in the 2.5 years since.

I'm not keen on Ruby but it is allowed and risk assessed in schools and she had 2.5 years to bloody notice.

If he now mid teens I don't think she'll get far with courts or where teen chooses to live now. Don't know what stance the school will take but admitting she doesn't read e-mail from the school or that she been so unaware about her child for nearly 3 years isn't going to go over well.

I think much as she hates it - she should accept it time to intervene was 2.5 years ago.

Your SIL will need to listen to her son. I don't think she has a right to be so outraged as her position on zero rugby was unreasonable.

Rather than seeing it as lying - could it be that your brother and nephew chose the low conflict route? Maybe they know how she reacts (in close relationships) more than you? She might have form for being unreasonable or lacking ability to compromise.

Your brother seems like a good Dad so that should be acknowledged. Mothers will generally be more fearful over sports like rugby because we have never played it so difficult to relate to the enjoyment her son gets from it. I do think safety is much improved in games. The concussion protocol is there in case of concussion but that can also happen in football.

As you are in a position of trust I would encourage your SIL to be open minded and recognise she can't impose her thoughts and fears on teens. It will only alienate her from her son.

She shouldn't raise this with the school as it will just embarrass her son and create further issues. I think she needs to accept this is his path and support him whilst also supporting his other interests. He may get a girlfriend and choose not to play any longer!

Goodness! The lying is absolutely not on… Dad, son and Grandpa should hang their heads in shame… I totally agree with previous poster who said it shows a complete lack of respect for your SIL….

However… I am flabbergasted as to how your SIL has not found out - in 2 years… does she not know sons friends? Their parents?? Chat to people? Has she never asked what he does on Sat - never wanted to watch his sports match - even though it’s not ‘her’ day??? I just don’t get it - it doesn’t make sense to me at all that she’s not involved enough in his life to not have realised until now!!!

I have 2 very sporty DC - both went to private school… Every Saturday there were matches to watch… DH and I were there most Saturdays on the sidelines of various different sports during the year… if we hadn’t been together I know we would have still gone… If not matches - other events… plays, music, school social events, parents evenings, tutor meetings, his school report FGS!!!!… it is almost impossible to avoid everyone for 2 years… if DN is as good at rugby as he is, someone else would have mentioned it - surely??? I am so confused by this - has his Mum not been involved at school at all?

And rugby - there are many risks involved… as there are with so many other sports… horses!!!!, skiing, surfing, boxing.. I could go on… people are not going to stop taking part because of the risks… If DN loves rugby as much as he obviously does, his Mum isn’t going to be able to stop him playing forever… best he learns properly and hones his skills with everyone else… Captain of the A team is a big achievement - good on a CV - shows good leadership skills etc… Thankfully, although there are obviously still risks involved, there are lots of new rules to try and protect players as much as possible.

The lying needs to be addressed… somehow they all need to work together to get past it - it would be a huge shame if a rift is caused. Sounds like everyone has DN best interests at heart - DN, DB and DF need to do some massive apologising… SIL will have lost trust in them. She needs to accept that her son has a talent, and if he wasn’t playing rugby, with his sporty talents, may well pick another dangerous sport - she can’t keep him wrapped up in cotton wool - let him get on with it… and she really should get to know his school/sports world better - and read her emails…. ??!

You sound like lovely person who loves them all and might just have to try and mediate to help them sort it all out… good luck!

So out of interest, as well as not reading the school emails & not bothering to go to any of her son’s games because she doesn't like sport & is too busy with her boyfriend, has she also never read a single progress report or attended a single parents evening?

How can SIL move on, when she will be constantly worried about her DS? Rugby is ongoing. Stress and worry is ongoing.

she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!

I* *have over 110,000 unread emails on my phone. I know what my child is doing at school because I read the important ones.

Isn't that just part of being a parent, though?

You can't stop your child from doing anything that will cause you worry or stress.

Coming here to say exactly this.

For me at this point the rugby would be a moot point. I would be utterly devastated at the behaviours exhibited towards myself from the men I thought I could trust. Never mind teaching my son that lying to me and secret keeping is okay.

I don’t think they’ll be much coming back from this, I would advise your brother to set up mediation as soon as possible and try to salvage what he’s chosen to ruin.

Then she needs to find ways to manage her own anxiety, not restrict her child’s activities.

It is very fashionable at the moment to be anti contact rugby. It is up there with the big anti smart phone wave.

I can see why your SIL is annoyed but the boy is old enough now to decide himself. Being captain of the A team is huge social kudos and it sounds like he is thriving at school, he won’t forgive his mother if she takes that away from him.

It is good these 2 got divorced, they clearly don’t see eye to eye on some fundamentals.

So true. Even DS' bog standard state school sends a report of what extra curricular he does at regular intervals.

Sometimes, because DH is shit about reading school comms etc, he'll occasionally have a little meltdown because he would have quite liked to do something or know something and every single time I remind him, that while I have accepted that I have taken on responsibility for the key school communication, I'm not going to be bloody curating all the random bits of information and then passing it to him in case he wants to know. That's on him. eg I have no interest in attending next week's PTA event. I personally don't consider it particularly important or valuable. I have not mentioned it. If he wants to go - he can read the 5000 emails himself and decide he wants to get a few of the boys together.