My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

What a mess! What is at the crux of this is the fact that their co parenting and communication wasn’t good as your brother actively lied/manipulated and she’s just checked out of the sporting aspect of her son’s life, which was clearly important to him even before this rugby element took hold.

If I was your SIL I would be furious to be deceived in the way she has been and annoyed at myself from checking out of the sports element of my son’s life.

Pragmatically I can’t see how the child can be taken out of rugby/school without a massive fallout and resentment from him. I think your DB and the school need to open up a dialogue with your SIL, acknowledge she has not known about his rugby and work through her initial concerns about safety etc. she should try and approach this with an open mind and see how important it is to her son and look to support his interests etc.

I’m afraid your brother sounds like an utter arsehole here. He knew what he was doing and has taught his son that’s it fine to lie to his own mother and that her opinion was frankly worthless. If he can’t see that, acknowledge it with her and their son, apologise and genuinely work to make amends then it really could have long lasting damage. Ie if he stays at school/rugby without realising the means to get here were wrong then it’s like a wink/wink between father and son. See, we knew we were right, so fine to keep mum in the dark and look that deception has worked out well and we’ve got what we wanted.

This.

She sounds like she's not remotely interested in that part of her son's life.

I'm on the fence

My uncle has dementia from boxing related head injury but then my mum had early onset and never had a head injury in her life

I herniated a disc so badly I got cauda equina and was nearly paralysed and my dad went ballistic when I got back on a horse 8 weeks after
It helped when I pointed out to him I herniated the disc doing absolutely nothing. Also that injury wise from horse riding I had one concussion but from getting out of bed and also using stairs I had shattered both my ankles and feet...

All you can do is mitigate risks as much as possible

If nephew lives with dad 100% of the time, how is he going to balance that with with workaholic personality? A year 9 can get to school and back but it’s good for him not to be home alone all of time especially when private schools tend to have longer holidays etc

What happens when he is with his dad is up to his dad. You can't wrap kids up in cotton wool, as a HCP from HCP parents I was never wrapped up in cotton wool. For those worried about dementia antihistamines have been linked to dementia so has football. What's the point of living a long life you don't enjoy it.

I think your brother needs to prepare for DS moving in with him or asking to board at school and good on him for having that courage to stand up to his ex.

Trying to force a boy his age to give up something he loves, and excels at, is impossible. Your SIL should have stayed in the loop, gone to matches, picked boy up from practice with his pals. Then she would have seen the situation develop, and might have been able to influence matters before it reached this impasse. She can mainly blame herself for being surprised by this.

@touchrugby my understanding is where the parents disagree schools would advise they can not accept risky sports involving insurance and would suggest a court order confirming outcome.

If the father of my children made a decision with the school against me, where substantial evidence of risk is widely available then it would be a very short court case. Are the school willing to finance care post injury where the insurance could be deemed null in void if a parent had expressed no permission granted ?

It's a legal mess and I would question what else he and his son kept from their mother, I find it disgusting and horrifying that a father would disrespect the care and protection of the mother. That poor woman what must she think of her relationship with her son.

at this point the rugby would be a moot point. I would be utterly devastated at the behaviours exhibited towards myself from the men I thought I could trust. Never mind teaching my son that lying to me and secret keeping is okay.

I agree with this.

I don’t think they’ll be much coming back from this, I would advise your brother to set up mediation as soon as possible and try to salvage what he’s chosen to ruin.

Don't agree with this - 2.5 year of taking no interest in an important part her son life - something that clearly he put work into and is important to him - is not a good look no amount of disorganisation explains this.

I can see working with her ex will be an ongoing issue but to throw a fit about what her DS can and can't do after such disinterest for such a prolonged period - I don't think it's just the ex who needs to do some salvaging.

How many young people have died playing other sports in your area? (not boxing either) They must be dropping like flies.

Yes injuries can occur in any sport - but they don't occur with the same liklihood do they. That is obvious.

My question remains. If the child has a serious head injury or is paralysed is the father willing to leave his job and spend the rest of his life caring for him - or will this be left to mum?

I imagine dad would be too high earning and important to become a full time carer.

"a young man died in a local team from a direct chest to chest impact a few months ago"...but not to worry hey.

Not once has anyone said “ not to worry “

Footballers, basket ballers, boxing , horse riders, base ballers have also died on the pitch, it’s not just rugby, when you play sport you risk injury and exceptionally rare times death, unfortunately it’s a risk when playing contact sports.

Ds2 (14) is exceptionally gifted at Rugby (will likely make it pro) and if I told him he couldn’t play Rugby I wouldn’t have a relationship with him as the game is part of him now.

I don’t believe the SIL is unreasonable however it’s a battle she won’t win and it’s not one I’d risk losing my son over.

I recently had a conversation with an osteopath who I trust and for some reason rugby came up.

She said the evidence about the damage to brains is significant AND is being squashed by the National/international rugby organisations because rugby is big business.

No child of mine would play rugby. I would be on your SIL’s side.

Difficult as tbh I think SIL is wrong to insist that he doesn't play rugby. That doesn't excuse the lying of course, but there's no compromise option and your brother and nephew obviously knew that and felt forced to lie about it. Added to that, she only has herself to blame for not reading emails or taking any interest in her son's progress. I think sil is going to have to back down or risk losing her son. The school will likely ask the parents to come to a final decision together, but i suspect that will essentially be your nephew's decision.

I don't think it's fair to make assumptions about the dad either way, tbh.

I obviously don't have a list of every injury or death ever sustained from every sport ever, but off the top of my head I can think of three boys who were killed doing ordinary everyday activities in the last year or so - one was hit by a car while riding his bike, and two more died swimming in a river during a heatwave.

My point was that every activity comes with risk and unless you ban your child from doing absolutely everything, you can't eliminate it. At 14, I would also argue that it's really not your choice anymore.

I think although your nephew is 14 ,its very young to decide anything with long term health risks . Your SIL is worried about his long term health, and with some justification it seems .The School obv offer the game and expect it to be played .There seems to be an impasse here TBH .I dont know whether SIL can challenge it with any success though

Just to one up your SIL, I’ve got 39,555 unread emails on my phone 💪🏼💪🏼😎

My dad and brother, uncles and cousins, went to a traditional rugby school, where the mother of the captain of the winning team got to hand over the inter-schools Senior Cup to her wonderful son, and it's the burning ambition of so many women to be that woman, with the best son, making her the best mother. Their daughters making captain of the netball team just doesn't have the same impact.

Rugby id cult in schools like this, which I think is why you've have lots of people coming on to say your SIL will lose her son immediately she doesn't get with the rugby programme, because they've done the McCain do you prefer 'Daddy or Chips' question, with 'Mummy or rugby' and for them.it's rugby. For them aren't other sports - soccer, swimming, tennis, basketball - they are rugby mums, their sons will get all the benefits of the old buys club, and of course their son won't get concussion, won't take the steroids passed around in the changing room, won't see their value as a human being reduced to what team they can get on rather than who they are a person.

You would not get people rushing to judge your SIL if the risky activity was riding scrambler bikes.

I think your sil is going to push her son away she's now only thinking of herself and not the impact of removing a 14 year old from this will do to his friendships and open him up to bullying.
Would she have banned him from horses, gymnastics, football, bikes etc?

Yes injuries can occur in any sport - but they don't occur with the same liklihood do they. That is obvious.

My question remains. If the child has a serious head injury or is paralysed is the father willing to leave his job and spend the rest of his life caring for him - or will this be left to mum?

I'd like the father to answer this question as well, OP.

Even 'smaller' injuries ... is he going to take the time off and do the appointment running, care, etc? Or at that point do the deceptive important men feel at that point the less important, lied to women should be on the hook?

You would not get people rushing to judge your SIL if the risky activity was riding scrambler bikes.

Why do you think that? I don't care either way about rugby - nobody in my family plays it and it's not a sport that even features on my radar most of the time.

@Marblessolveeverything
then it would be a very short court case

Do you really think this would be the right action to take as it would just completely alienate her son? It sounds very controlling

Rugby is not a banned sport so why would a judge prevent the son from playing?? I think it would be a very short court case as unlikely a solicitor would agree to take it to court.

@Winter2020 he was in his 20s, not in youth rugby and he and the other player went in for the tackle wrong.
Similar incidents have happened I football. It was a tragic accident but if everyone stopped playing sport after every tragic accident then we wouldn't have any horse riders, cheerleaders, skiers, watersport, board sport athletes etc. its terrible but it happens. Same as driving a car, you do t stop driving just because someone else has a crash.

Amateur league still.

I had a really interesting interview on the radio recently about an academic paper that explores how allowing children to play contact rugby flies in the face of all safeguarding legislation.

The interviewee was saying that you don't need to have a specific bang to the head to get a head injury from rugby, the tackling and throwing to the ground etc sends the brain rattling around the skull and can cause brain injury without any impact to the head.

I found it very interesting becuse it's true that putting children at frequent risk of sustaining a brain injury would be considered a safeguarding concern in any other context.

Long term effects of the brain being thrown around like that are things like early onset dementia.

Having listened to that interview I can completely understand SIL point of view.

I feel anxious just looking at that. 😁Does it not eat up all the storage space on your phone?

Link to a news article on that paper

www.freepressjournal.in/amp/education/study-reveals-rugby-leads-to-brain-injuries-links-it-to-child-abuse