My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

"a young man died in a local team from a direct chest to chest impact a few months ago"...but not to worry hey.

..bloody hell!

All I'll say is as rare as any serious injury might be I hope if your nephew suffers a serious head injury or paralysis your brother will be leaving his highly paid job to be a full time carer and not expecting his mother to spend the rest of her life nursing him. It would be the very least he could do.

I can see both sides and I'd furious if my ex had encouraged my dc to lie to me about things - it's not a good place to be in, encouraging children to lie to adults

But, being unorganised is no excuse for not knowing what's going on at school, to the extent he plays a sport weekly she's never been to watch him. My ex uses the 'I'm not organised' card to get out of parenting the boring bits, and as a result I'm the one that ends up making decisions for our dd as I'm fed up of having to ask his opinion or remind him to do things he could easily make himself aware of and sort out. Sounds like your SIL was happy to leave all the school stuff, to your DB, so she has to take a certain amount of blame here too.

Either way it's your DN that will have the final say.

He knows we're friends. That's why I'm in the middle of this. I'm currently the only person they both still like and trust! I think SIL was unreasonable. I think DB shouldn't have made DN complicit in lying. There's big fault on both sides but it needs to be sorted without things happening that there will be no coming back from. For DNs sake really. I love him the most ❤️

Seriously? Papers? Can't imagine much interest in a domestic dispute surely?

The evidence is quite obvious about brain injuries in contact sports, including modern rugby. It's not a rabbit hole, it's science.

Your brother has behaved abysmally here. We banned contact rugby in this house as well and would have known better than to send our boys to a private school that was all about rugby. And we did that in spite of one of our boys being very gifted at ball sports who did push back a bit, at the school who wanted him to play, etc. There are plenty of other sports to choose from, and he did.

Unfortunately, your brother helped that ship sail. He's likely destroyed any chance of an amicable relationship with his son's mother, and it will be his fault if his's sons relationship with his mother falls apart over this. Because he chose to let it get to this point, in spite of his protestations. I don't think much of your brother.

That said, your nephew is now 14 and heavily invested in this sport in a school that is all about this sport. It probably wouldn't be fair to stop him at this point ... even though this should never have happened in the first place ... so his mother is going to have to suck it up if she wants a relationship with him.

Her relationship with your brother, otoh, will likely never recover. He's been wilfully deceptive about all of this, was happy to be the 'disney dad' over it essentially, and needs to apologise to his son for putting him in this position and his son's mother for what he's done.

Bet he won't, though.

Phineyj is not wrong - the papers and media sites will pick up on stuff like this. Human interest innit.

Surely there's also a need to accept that a child can choose their sporting activities, this would be a really strange rock to perish on. How will your sil be able to accept that she lost custody of her son because of rugby.
Many others will be keen to take on a captain role and having to step down from it would be a huge humiliation for your dn.
My son has played rugby since he was 6 yrs old, at times he's reduced his playing due to uni/work commitments but it's been a life changing sport for him in terms of friendships and ethos

ex-SIL needs to come off her high horse fast.

DN is doing really well in school and has made captain of the team which is fantastic both socially and in terms of academics - can help get him into some of the top unis as they will want him for his sporting achievements.

To not support him with is idiotic.

Despite your brother’s workaholic tendencies and underhand tactics, he has been entirely devoted to your DN and involved and aware of all aspects of his life.

Ex-SIL hasn’t bothered reading key emails related to her son, picks and chooses what she is interested in and her preoccupation in getting her leg over with a new partner has distracted her from being a proactive and involved parent.

A court will see the lack of involvement on her part and will take DN’s views on board so I suspect your brother will get full custody.

I would strongly suggest you advise your SIL of this, getting her to seek legal advice before she makes the situation worse or alienates her son further.

I think the school will look at her with wide, shocked eyes.

This is a family matter. The school would probably appreciate them sorting it between themselves 😅

A difficult one.
Yes, it was wrong to hide it. Possibly, Dad agreed thinking DN wouldn't like it or not be good at the sport. Sporty people aren't necessarily good at all sports.and it just grew from there.

Another way to look at it Mum not paying enough attention to her son. Ignoring emails from school is very bad form .
Co parenting, surely means that both should have a vested interest in all matters.

The deceit is wrong but obviously Mum has little interest in DN interests. Surely, parenting means both taking an interest in all matters relating to DC.
I think an excuse that she has 10,000 unopened emails on her phone is hilarious.
One assumes that all emails from school go into a primary box. What else has she neglected to read?

Maybe she is just disorganised or it has been convenient yo not ask about his Saturday sports because she is busy with her new chap.

One assumes that if your DN is in teams etc that team photos and info would appear in newsletters?
His reports or reviews would mention his contribution to the teams and his contribution to school life.
Does she not bother to read them too?
I, also, find it odd that his talent in Rugby hasn't been mentioned at Parents' Evenings etc.

As to what happens goodness knows.

She was wrong to not listen to her son's needs early on, but she's not the liar or deceiver in this situation. The boy's grandad is also complicit and partly responsible for this situation. The men in his life have basically told your nephew that his mum doesn't matter and can actively be ignored and lied to.

This, too.

Pretty awful behaviour from the men in the family, frankly.

Private school and parents arguing over rugby. Yep papers will lift it.

pull the thread @touchrugby

Also your brothers been a dick.

It’s a rugby school. The parent body as a whole would feel sorry for dn that his mum seems unstable. The old boys network similarly. Someone would probably reach out to db offering their legal expertise to ban her from matches as an unstable mum who doesn’t support her child. Thats what would happen.
some people would read and judge, yes. 99.9% of such people would never ever have sent a child there anyway and the school will know that. Their success on the rugby field will be far more influential to their reputation and enrolments.

op, you keep saying you like your sil and support her and feel like defending her. Do that by telling her she needs to support her son, that is the single biggest thing a true friend could do for her.

@touchrugby agree re. Media. The thread is trending and getting a lot of traffic and the in-depth info you’ve given is identifying.

Click on your original post and ask MN to remove as identifying.

But seriously, your ex-SIL needs legal advice before she progresses this further, I don’t think she has a chance of getting what she wants and at this point her demands will have a very negative impact on your DN.

I haven’t read the whole thread but your SIL has every right to be furious with both of them. They lied to her, actively or by omission, for two years.

That said, I totally understand your DN’s point of view. My DS is also sports mad and goes to a school where everybody plays rugby and he also plays club rugby on a Sunday. Tag rugby (the non-contact form) is massively looked down on as something they play only until Year 3. I understand your DN refusing to play that.

At the end of the day, they are where they are, and if SIL goes to school and has him removed from the sport he loves he will never forgive her. To be captain of the A team is a huge deal and she should be proud of him. That takes commitment and excellent communication skills as well as talent. The school obviously think very highly of him.

If he doesn’t do it already, I would suggest that he offers to wear a scrum cap, which will provide some protection on the pitch. That may be enough to allow your SIL to climb down without feeling that she has given in entirely.

And it goes without saying that they have to be transparent in future.

Your DB has behaved dreadfully. I understand your DN started the school in Year 7 at age 11 with an agreement that he would do non contact rugby and approx. 21 days later your DB authorised a change without informing his ex. It is a pity he has not valued a cooperative relationship. Will he be paying for private health care and taking time off work if DN is injured? Eg. The NHS may nor pin a fractured collar bone etc. I’m surprised it has not come to her attention as most schools publish team photos etc. Basically he has taught his 11 year old to deceive his mother. If his DS deceives him later he will reap the consequences of what he has sown.

Yep - all sorts of threads from here end up in the papers.

People looking up this subject will find this page. OP's SIL could easily come across it.

I simply can't imagine a world in which my child is good at sport, enjoys sport plays matches every Saturday and the mother has never seen a match.

She has been so unsupportive of her son to have not watched a match in two and a half years. If she'd watched a single match or had any interest in this , which is really important to him, she would have known that he was playing normal rugby.

I think there is fault on both sides. DB shouldn't have encouraged and allowed DN to play rugby behind your SIL back, but your SIL doesn't get to dictate what sport DN can do if he wants to do it. She may not like it, but it's a perfectly acceptable sport to play and he's clearly very good.

I think they need to accept that what they have both done up to no (him lying, her be unreasonable in allowing their son to pursue his interests) and work on what will happen going forwards.

As a parent of 3DC, 2 are now older than your DN and are exceptionally sporty (not my interest, but Ive taken them all over the country with their sport despite having no interest in it at all), DN will want to continue playing and if he mum wants to 'ban' him from it, she will end up worst off.

He will move in with his dad and he will continue playing and she wont be a large part of this life anymore. All of which is terrible, but she needs to understand that what is done is done and she now needs to support her son with his passion or she will lose him.

Does she really hate rugby so much that she is willing to cut off her nose to spite her face and ruin her relationship with her son (who will continue playing anyway)?

Sounds a bit daft to me, is she going to micromanage his exposure to risk in other areas of his life too, e.g. learning to drive?

Given his passion and talent for the sport, and the opportunities this will afford him (even if just limited to looking good on his CV), and the fact that he tried to follow her bidding but hated it, I think if I were in her shoes I'd bow out on the basis that his happiness and life satisfaction are more important than my peace of mind.

Your brother and nephew should not have deceived her.

But your SIL has to accept some responsibility here. Flatly refusing something that her son really wanted to do, at a school known for rugby was silly. In addition, it sounds like your brother is able to turn up for concerts but sport is all on him?

Never mind anything else, what about the school's newsletter? Not once, in 2 years, has she read the newsletter and realised that there was a snippet about her son playing rugby?

With all due respect, her "scattiness" sounds ridiculous. You say she's otherwise a very involved parent but the fact that she managed to completely miss this for so long tell she she's only engaged up to a point. At none of these concerts or music-related activities the subject of rugby came up? She's never noticed a bruise or a scratch on a Saturday? She's never questioned what sport he was doing on a Saturday morning? She's not once been interested in attending a single sports fixture?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. I am absolutely clear that your brother and nephew actively not talking about it was a mistake, but she doesn't get to throw her hands up and go, "oh no, I was deceived".

Your brother encouraged his son to lie to his mother, his father went along with it. So yes, 3 blokes lying to the mother. The risk of brain damage worries me too.

However the boy is now of an age where she will lose him now if she doesnt let him play. There should be consequences for the lying - up to the mum what those are and your brother should do nothing to undermine that. Both your brother and son need to be very apologetic and not threatening her with losing all contact.

You need to telling sil you are ashamed of your brother but she'll need to accept it now and just work on keeping him as safe as she can and ensuring he has other interests that may eventually take over. He'll be interested in girls soon, if he isnt already, and a girlfriend may not be keen on constant rugby games either. Try to get her to see this as something that may pass in a few years and not something to let permanently damage her relationship with her son.

As for your brother and father I'd tell him they were a bloody disgrace. There should have been a reasoned discussion at the time.

Pull the thread.

"a young man died in a local team from a direct chest to chest impact a few months ago"...but not to worry hey.

Nobody said "well, not to worry".

Serious, life-changing injuries are rare in rugby (much rarer than in the past) and could also occur in pretty much every single other sport that exists.

Absolutely This ^^ In spades!

The SIL sounds very controlling and if she keeps insisting that he isn't to play Contact Rugby, she WILL lose him.