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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

685 replies

touchrugby · 24/02/2024 09:48

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

OP posts:
touchrugby · 24/02/2024 10:28

Caerulea · 24/02/2024 10:22

This is very messy. Yes rugby can be dangerous, no two ways about it, but there have been a lot of changes to improve safety. A lot comes down to the mentality around it so previously, injuries on-field were brushed off (my own DS3 dislocated his jaw & no one bothered to properly check & realised what had happened) (I was pissed!!).

Your SIL best & fairest course of action is to talk to the school, get them to explain the measures they take to ensure safety regards to head injuries (that's truly where the danger lies). For her to attend a few games so she can see for herself & THEN judge if she feels comfortable. She needs to allow herself to be educated. She also needs to put this in perspective if she'd be comfy with skiing or horse riding which also carry a lot of risk.

She is wholly wrong to pull him out without doing the above.

Your brother is very wrong for lying & the above SHOULD have been done at the get go to address her (not entirely unreasonable) concerns.

Your nephew is 'in' now & sounds like he's bloody good, the resentment will be huge if she pulls him out.

This is good advice. My brother says DN wears a scrum cap and has never been injured. The school have a "concussion protocol" which he said he'd share with her but I'm not sure that will help. I mean... why do they need a protocol if concussion isn't a thing?

OP posts:
saraclara · 24/02/2024 10:28

I'd be massively frustrated with them both, on your position. I mean, what mother doesn't bother reading (or at least opening) emails from her kids' school?

But the more I think about it, the more wrong I think it is that your brother encouraged their son to lie by omission for over two years.

He asked you what he could have done differently? Well there's your answer.

At this point I can only suggest that there's a conversation with a mediator to allow all three of them a safe space to discuss this and be heard, before they're all torn apart.

Untilitisnt · 24/02/2024 10:28

Mothers do not have top trumps in everything

Cameraclick · 24/02/2024 10:29

It’s up to DN what he does. He’s clearly very very talented at rugby and what an achievement to be the captain of the A team. How embarrassing it’s going to be for him if his mum storms into the school and says he’s not playing anymore. I can totally see why he wouldn’t want to live with her after that. She is going to lose him if she carries on.

touchrugby · 24/02/2024 10:30

IgglePiggledidntdothat · 24/02/2024 10:14

My father was an international rugby player and has dementia. He’s late stage now and I can’t tell you how horrible it is. But I can tell you is def because his head was smashed to bits on the rugby pitch. So whilst my son has both my father’s physique and looks like it the sport would be a natural fit I can’t even watch or talk about rugby, let alone conceive my child doing it.

So it kind of depends on whether or not she has seen first hand the issue of injury and is trying to relay that to people who don’t understand the problems it can causes and are therefore being blase about it. This is where I would be. Or if maybe she’s catastrophising about as it’s something she’s seen can happen but doesn’t always happen at which point the fixation is a bit less understandable.

But for those of us that live it no, I totally get that strength of feeling.

Thank you for sharing and I'm so very sorry about your father. This is exactly why she didn't want him playing.

It's all a mess.

OP posts:
SchoolQuestionnaire · 24/02/2024 10:30

I don’t think dsil is being unreasonable to be cautious about rugby, the risks are well documented. Thankfully dh and I were on the same page about this. Dh played as a child and loved it but didn’t want our ds’s future being put at risk. But I think that in the situation she is in now she has no choice but to allow it. Unfortunately your db’s deceitful actions have left her in an impossible position. Your db has behaved terribly and has caused this entire issue.

ImRen · 24/02/2024 10:31

I'm sorry for those of you who know men who have dementia that's likely been caused by rugby but the way the game is played at school level has changed a lot over the years. It's much safer now.

musicforthesoul · 24/02/2024 10:31

Your SIL needs to let this go if she wants to keep a relationship with her son.

There's fault on all sides at the beginning of this, but if she insists he give up a sport he clearly loves, has been playing for years and is good enough to be team Captain for, he isn't going to forgive her easily.

I suspect the school will withdraw him if she really pushes, I doubt they want to be in the middle of a parenting argument, but if her son then refuses to see her he's old enough that it's unlikely to be forced.

Love51 · 24/02/2024 10:31

Contact sports are risky. Fun, but risk of injury is inherent.
In her shoes though I'd not ruin my entire relationship with him to offset the likelihood of a broken collar bone or cracked rib somewhere down the line. I'm not one that believes we should never get injured anyway! I amazed he hasn't come home with a scrawped leg or some bruises, I expect he must have done - to get that good he must be playing every chance he gets.
In her shoes I'd be furious at the deception, but what can she do given Dad is complicit?

Shinyandnew1 · 24/02/2024 10:32

I suspect the school will withdraw him if she really pushes, I doubt they want to be in the middle of a parenting argument

Quite possibly, and I suspect that would destroy her relationship with her son

BobbyBiscuits · 24/02/2024 10:33

To allow a kid to go to a public school well renowned for it's Rugby, and then expect him not to participate, regardless of his level of interest is pretty harsh.
And just say he decided to take up boxing after school, sky-diving, base-jumping? Motocross? Bodybuilding? All these hobbies/ sports are more 'dangerous' but he shouldn't be wrapped in cotton wool. I hope the Mum sees sense and realises he loves it and she will lose him if she won't allow him. The school is bound to try and explain to her how good he is at it, and the benefits he gets from it etc.

SgtJuneAckland · 24/02/2024 10:33

@BaconEggAndCoffee I'm not willing to allow either and definitely not boxing!
DS does gymnastics, swimming and athletics yes all have a risk of injury as any sport does but not repetitive head injuries

touchrugby · 24/02/2024 10:33

Untilitisnt · 24/02/2024 10:18

Let the boy do what he wants
Rugby risks are known and are ameliorated as much as possible
SIL being selfish; your DB and school tried to contact her, she couldn't be bothered to read emails

She's a good parent. Engaged with everything but sport. She basically saw rugby in the email header and assumed DB would deal with it as sport was "his thing".

DB said he spent a long time wondering if she'd read it and was just ignoring it and waiting for the other shoe to drop. When he heard nothing they just quietly carried on

He does not come out of this well.

OP posts:
Stressfordays · 24/02/2024 10:34

Well the horse has bolted now hasn't it? I understand why she is upset completely but the choice between allowing my teenager to play rugby and losing him all together is a no brainer. Id discuss helmets and try and compromise in that respect rather then trying to stop him playing.

What an achievement for your DN though. Captain of the A team. I think my pride would overtake my anger in this case. He is clearly very skilled and what a shame to not encourage a clear talent.

CommentNow · 24/02/2024 10:35

Your brother has been an absolute cock overriding her and hiding it and helping DN cover his tracks. Whether he thinks his dad is e9ght or not, at some pin t as an adult he will see how wrong his dad was and will see him in a new light and likely be angry at him.

Your brother thinks paying for private school gives him the final say.

At this point, if I was DNs mum and I thought full custody would inconvenience your brother, I'd probably say fine, have full custody and I'll see son at weekends and I'll be the fun parent. And if DN feels the need to lie, frankly I'd fee like perhaps he would be better with his dad making the decisions he seems to think he gets the final say.

I'm so angry in behalf if your SIL- despite thinking she made the wrong decision about rugby. It's not the point.

touchrugby · 24/02/2024 10:36

SausageAndEggSandwich · 24/02/2024 10:27

She needs to speak to the school calmly and with an open mind and not go in all guns blazing

A school which is a "rugby school" should be very aware of the safety issues and teaching the children in the right way

Because it is a high risk sport, children have to be taught the relevant skills while they are young and don't have the strength/speed to cause much damage to each other. As they grow up and get stronger they will already have those skills embedded to play as safely as they can. This is why they teach contact rugby at a young age. It's not about letting children run at each other as hard as they can.

The other thing is impacts & there is a lot of research being done about that and how to minimise the effects. In children most high risk impacts happen in training, because they are still learning, in adults it happens in match scenarios because they are now much stronger. So you can see how the risk pattern changes as children age.

I'm not a huge fan of rugby, but I listen to a sports podcast a lot (science of sport) and Dr Ross Tucker is heavily involved in World Rugby and talks a lot about the safety issues and the latest developments and research.

I'll look into the podcast.
I'm sort of in the middle as I love both of them and my nephew, I've not been involved in either the @saying no without discussion" or the "encouraging my nephew to lie" so they're both contacting me about what to do.

OP posts:
tomago · 24/02/2024 10:36

BaconEggAndCoffee · 24/02/2024 10:19

Genuinely interested in this viewpoint- the boy is 13/14 he can refuse to go home to his mother. He has permission from his father.

How would you actually achieve this?

They'd just say look school we're shit and can't discuss and agree like sensible parents so as one parent has overridden the child the our kid now requires both of us to say yes.

Willyoujustbequiet · 24/02/2024 10:36

I'm with your sil. Its incredibly dangerous and all just coming out now.

13/14 year olds need to be protected from decisions that can irrevocably change their futures. Teens think they are invincible and can't see that far ahead. Posters wouldn't be so dismissive if he decided to smoke like a chimney.

Lindy2 · 24/02/2024 10:37

What a shame that this has over shadowed your DN's achievement of being made rugby captain. He is obviously talented.

If he's year 9 he's age 14 or 15 now. An age where he can make decisions for himself.

If his mum comes in all overbearing then I think the likelihood is she's going to push him away, even more than she already has.

If he's never mentioned the rugby before or she's never shown enough interest to ask or actually go to watch him play, then it doesn't sound like the relationship is very open or close as it is.

10,000 unopened emails is bizarre. If she can't be bothered to read school information that is sent to her then it's hardly surprising she's not upto date with what's actually going on.

yourlobster · 24/02/2024 10:37

Your brother is a fucking twat for encouraging his child to lie to his mum.

I don't think there's any way of stopping him playing now without a huge fallout but actually the dad could prevent that too.
He doesn't need to go along with the teen child's plans to leave his mum and live full time with him and if he allows that he'll be even more of a twat.

He needs to do the repair

ZebraPensAreLife · 24/02/2024 10:38

Your brother has been an absolute cock overriding her

You could also say she’s been an absolute cock for wanting to override him

touchrugby · 24/02/2024 10:38

Shinyandnew1 · 24/02/2024 10:32

I suspect the school will withdraw him if she really pushes, I doubt they want to be in the middle of a parenting argument

Quite possibly, and I suspect that would destroy her relationship with her son

This could be true and I don't think she realises how serious this could be for her relationship with DN.

OP posts:
yourlobster · 24/02/2024 10:38

... do the repair work here and stop relationships breaking down. This is about more than rugby now.

CwmYoy · 24/02/2024 10:39

Your brother is an absolute cunt, OP. But you know that.

PuttingDownRoots · 24/02/2024 10:40

Both parents at fault.
Dad for lying by omission.
Mum for not taking at least a passing interest in something her son was passionate about.

Now they need to find compromise. Its no good just saying No as the son will push back.
So maybe she needs to find at more. The safety regulations ar constantly getting tighter. She needs to find out how the school is ensuring the safety of their players. Make sure the son follows all the protocols. And maybe ask him about his matches.