My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

@lifebeginsaftercoffee

if he does want to allow girlfriends' to spend the night in the future, then that's entirely his choice. His home, his child, his decisions.

This is madness.

It is one thing to sign a parental support form, thinking that your ex has seen it, and supporting your child on your custody days to attend matches related to that sport. Particularly when it will lead to social and academic opportunities.

It is quite another to let a gf sleep over without discussing it with the child’s mother because in the event that she gets pregnant it may be ruinous for all involved - grandparents and parents. Two totally different scenarios. Incomparable.

Maybe not, but unfortunately that's something you have to deal with when you don't live with your child's other parent and share contact between you.

Negligence isn't the same as 'neglect'.

Negligence here means failing to take due note and prompt action (in this case wrt communication properly sent by the school).

For whatever reason, she failed to read or the the action she might have deemed necessary once she read the communication. That is Negligence on her part. Not neglect. There's a difference.

You can disagree and say it's madness all you like, but unfortunately when your child lives between two homes, you have very little say in what happens when they're with their other parent.

If parent A thinks it's acceptable to have boyfriends/girlfriends sleep over, that's their decision to make. Parent B can have whatever rules they like for their house, but they can't tell parent A what to do in theirs.

It’s the extent of it @Goldbar that for 2 1/2 years she knew nothing. Ignored emails addressed to her regarding her son. And the reason she isn’t there or involved in that aspect of his life is the boyfriend and other activities for herself. All his best mates will be rugby orientated too so she must have little involvement in his social life which is odd; most Mums know the details of their children’s best friends and have regular contact with them.

She was negligent in so far as she chose to absolve herself of any responsibility for this area of her child's life. You don't get to do that and then complain about it three years down the line.

I don't think she was neglectful but I do think she should have paid a damn sight more attention than she did. And I think if it was a dad who hadn't paid any attention for three years because he "left it all to mum", he would be slammed as a shit parent.

How on earth do you consider wanting to protect your child from serious injuries, which are known in rugby, "controlling and unreasonable"? A teenager will very likely be unaware of the long-term damage to health that can be caused from playing rugby, therefore, is not capable of making an INFORMED decision on the matter. I cannot believe you think it's "quite right" for her to lose her son over this when she has his health as her top priority.

ETA: I actually suffered a brain injury during a sport, which took me about 7 years to recover from, and I've still never been 100% since. I am now at increased risk of dementia, and other serious health conditions. The mum is NOT overreacting here.

I agree that the lying by omission is never okay, but if SIL was genuinely interested in DN’s full education, she’d read the damn emails like a grownup and she would have known. I wonder if DB & SIL’s intrinsic refusal to take on bits of each other’s lives (each staying in their own lane) contributed to the divorce. Poor DN is literally the meat in the sandwich. Does he genuinely love music or is he doing this to appeal to his mother’s interests and goals? Is it really healthy for DB to be that heavily invested in his son’s sporting career that this is his entire social life? No! Poor kid must feel like a tennis ball being thwocked backwards and forwards across the net by parents who see him as a reflection of themselves rather than a person with his own hopes and desires. I think family counselling would be the best suggestion.

If his health was truly her "top priority", then why didn't she pay the slightest bit of attention to anything he did in his rugby classes or matches for nearly three years?

@lifebeginsaftercoffee not had to deal with this myself, but have seen with friends they have mediation and agreements drawn up as to how they will parent and this is broadly kept to. Perhaps my friends have an idealistic arrangement.

My point is the gravity of the two things in terms of potential detriment is not comparable.

Your brother has been duplicitous and has openly disrespected his ex-wife so she doesn’t get in the way of the wider education he wants for their son. Even more significantly, he has taught his son how to behave in the same way. This is much more significant than the actual rugby.

Interesting.... she's ok with skiing. Possibly because she herself enjoys it...

There is a host of equipment introduced to protect players. From padded clothing, back/shoulder supports to scrum caps.

The age graded safe tackle heights have changed I think.

Additionally the protocol around identifying and managing concussion.

I'm sure there are more but these are the changes I'm most aware of in comparison to when I was playing over two decades ago

Unfortunately once a child reaches a certain age, they can choose where they live so if mum chooses to be much stricter, they can just go and live with dad (or vice versa, of course).

As for potential detriment - rugby injuries can kill and paralyse you, so I'd say they were pretty serious!

This is wrong on the law. OP your brother should take urgent family law advice from a specialist solicitor. The situation is far more nuanced than set out in this response.

Probably because they HID it from her, so she didn't even know 🙄

Besides, it clearly says in the thread that the Dad covered sport.

Re the emails, rugby discussions with friends, why is it not possible that his mother assumed they were discussing their NONcontact rugby playing, because she knew she'd agreed to that.

No one talks about Rugby as Contact Rugby or Noncontact Rugby in conversations. It's just Rugby. THe Rugby team son is on.

She may well have seen the emails and glossed over them because she knew he was playing rugby, just assumed it was referring to his non contact rugby as that's what she'd been told by the menz.

THey're still arseholes.

@ReadingSoManyThreads

Was your brain injury acquired from playing rugby or what is the comparison here?

I think what you’d have to look at is what the school’s specific modus operandi is for 13-14year olds playing the sport. It certainly won’t be conducted as the adult game is.

In any event the boy is of an age where he could choose to live with his father over this and is 4 years off adulthood where neither parent will get a say what he does, unless they are funding it.

He may wish to go skiing, deep diving, any number of risky sports or backpacking through terrorist hotspots… there will be nothing to stop him in a short period of time.

As difficult as it may be for the mother to come to terms with things, she is probably going to have to because her concerns have not been and will not be taken on board.

I happen to agree with your SIL on contact sports and children. I actually think the evidence and ethics makes even being a fan and giving money to adult sport is problematic.

that said, I have a child this same age. I am still her guide and mentor, but she is making her own choices in life. As much as I want to be in control, I’m not really in charge anymore. I have to let her do some things that I don’t love.

I’m with your brother to be honest.
Im not surprised they hid it, I can’t imagine trying to stop my child doing something they really want to do and are obviously very good at.
Ex sil sounds very unreasonable. Brother is as much a parent as she is and he also has a say.
If she carries on like this then she’s going to lose oht on her son. Best thing she can do is speak to her son and start supporting him.

What would I do? I'd stay out of it. You love both of them so don't pick sides. You will fall out with one.

It will sort itself out one way or another. They are both parents. The boy is going nowhere and is not going to give up rugby. The mother will eventually relent as she realises her son will choose rugby if forced into a decision. The more you involve yourself the more likely it is that you will come out somehow being blamed by someone.

Step back. Tell them to take a break from each other and get clear heads before coming together to discuss it. I don't know why your SIL thinks she gets the final say. And I don't know why you think your brother has gotten himself into trouble. This might teach her to sort out her email inbox. How many other important emails has she missed?

If your nephew hated rugby this wouldn't be an issue, because he wouldn't have continued playing. At first they compromised on non-contact and he hated it. The fact that both felt unable to approach this with your SIL says a lot. She's not the primary parent. She doesn't get to decide unilaterally. Sometimes we have to let our children go a little and allow them freedom to grow into their own person.

Don't offer opinion to either side. The families don't need to get involved. It's a matter fit both parents and the child to sort out. Don't take sides.

I agree with this. The lying is the most serious part. It is a major safeguarding concern if adults let or encourage children to lie to their parents.

Very true

They didn't hide it from her, though. She knew her DS played some kind of rugby and chose not involve herself in any of it.

No talking about his lessons or his matches
No attending his matches
No reading his school reports
No speaking to any of his teachers
No reading (or responding) to her e-mails
No reading the school newsletters
No talking to his mates about their lives, sports, interests etc.

Unless you think the brother, the DS, all his friends and the school conspired to never tell her anything about rugby for nearly three years, I don't think you can say anything was hidden from her!

It's possible, but if she'd attended even a single match over the years, she'd know exactly what kind of rugby her child was playing.

She didn't bother.