My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

At age 13 plus children can agree to vaccinations or going on the pill even if the parents don't agree.
I personally think that is too young, but that is the law. It all seems a mess where one minute children can't decide, then the next minute they can take major decisions for themselves and the parents might not even know.

She knew he played NON-CONTACT rugby. The non-contact rugby didn't play matches.

But that wasn't her thing with her son. That was what his dad did with him and she did other things.

And I read it that she assumed she'd consented to non-contact rugby, in which case she might assume all the emails were about that.

I'm just not convinced that she couldn't know. I don't see how you can spend three years with a teenager and be super involved in their life only to have no idea about their sporting achievements or what they were up to.

Unless she just wasn't interested and only really cares now she realises she got it wrong for such a long period. I wonder if she's a bit embarrassed that she didn't know.

OP says that music/drama was her "thing" with him but that dad still made the effort to go to performances and concerts.

Lots of parents aren't that interested in watching their child's matches but they do it anyway because it's the right thing as mum/dad to do that for your kid.

Remember when DS was a baby and we had to take him to A&E on a Sunday morning and the waiting room was full of males of various ages all with rugby injuries. The air ambulance was also seen regularly at the local rugby club.

I really didn't want DS to play rugby.. Luckily he had a medical issue that meant he was advised not to play contact sport. He did play for about a year before the condition was diagnosed. I really struggled to watch him play. I'm assuming even if SIL knew about the matches she wouldn't want to watch.

She sounds very controlling at least your your brother listened to what your DN wanted. He is old enough to make up his own mind.

Whao!

So if your young teen wants to take drugs, you will run out and buy them for him?

I am a great believer in teaching our children to be independent and respecting their wishes, but what does an eleven-year-old know about the risk of dementia?

Are you trying to compare an illegal drug with a perfectly legal sport?

I think the poster is making the point that teenagers don't make decisions rationally. And that they discount the future far too highly. Parenting is about judging the risks that they misperceive and bring unpopular with your teens if you have to be.

Your SIL needs to not choose this hill to die on. Your brother and nephew were wrong to hide it, but to be brutally honest she’s had her head in the sand if she thinks year 9’s would still be playing non contact rugby.

Your nephew is clearly talented and passionate- she needs to let him make his own choice here, he’s old enough to decide and understand the risks and make his own decisions. If she tried to wrap him in cotton wool she’s going to drive a wedge between the two of them.

But as rugby is legal and on the curriculum for many schools, you can't compare their decision to play it with their decision to (potentially) take drugs one day.

Year 9’s are 14, not 11.

Two years away from legally being allowed to get married.

There is a world of difference from illegal drugs and an incredibly popular mainstream sport.

@fiddlemeg contact rugby starts at year 4 - tackling rather than tag rugby. Other contact elements - rucks, mauls, scrums, line outs - are introduced progressively from u10s until u16s (year 5 until year 10 ish). So a year 7 is absolutely playing contact rugby. However they only play against children their own age, barring some specific exemptions. He will be captain of the year 9 A team I think - a whole bunch of 13-14 years old.

apologies if someone has already pointed this out

I watch year 7s playing contact rugby once a week, so I promise you it’s a thing

The child started contact rugby in year 7 when he was 11.

That's why Coyoacan is stating that 11yos don't know enough about dementia.

He's now in Y9 and has been doing contact rugby for more than 2 years.

My daughter is 9 and refuses to pay tag (non-contact) rugby because it’s lame, for babies and the tackles are what makes it so much fun. There is a huge social aspect and team spirit, and playing a team sport has been absolutely fantastic for her.

I don’t agree with the deception but if SIL hadn’t been so ridiculous about banning rugby in the first place, her son wouldn’t have been compelled to do so. The mess is off her own making. You can’t send a sporty boy to a posh private school and expect him to skip rugby - he’d be a laughing stock if he said mummy won’t let me play, I’m allowed tag.

It doesn’t really matter who did right or wrong of mum and dad . The important thing is the child and his happiness and development . Both parents need to listen to him .

Ok, but it’s age appropriate at 11 - not full contact, and the point is the child is now 14 and old enough to make his own choices

@fiddlemeg the RFU defines contact rugby - so tackling - as starting with the u9s year 4. This is one on one tackling. No scrums or rucks. U10 introduces one on one rucks, u11 two on two rucks, u12 unlimited in rucks and fend offs, u13 pushing in the scrum, and then line outs after that. This is in England - I think in other countries it varies (Soutb Africa is I think full contact from year 7). I am involved in rugby at club level, please believe me! If you don’t believe me, please show your source! That age group regulation 15 you quoted earlier is about playing up and down across year groups and isn’t relevant

It’s a horrible situation, one party will be desperately unhappy with the final outcome. Life is not easy.

I can only give you my experience. My husband wasn’t allowed to play rugby. Past a very young age. He loved it, it was his passion. He has never forgiven his parents for it :(. It has affected his relationship with them to this day.

And that’s exactly why I let my son play rugby. I tried my best to get him to prefer football, but to no avail.

am unclear what this “full contact” rugby is, it’s either non contact or contact. It’s just that other elements get introduced over time too. The whole 15 on 15 rugby with adult rules doesn’t come in until, I think, u16, but they do tackle - and properly tackle, at full pelt, sometimes the physicality is quite something - from age 9 or so.

She no doubt assumed it was about the non-contact rugby she’d agreed to! Her ex misled her and engaged in deception even though it had previously been agreed their don would only do non contact rugby. How was she to know that agreement would be breached?