My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

Are there other kids in the family? Is it just the potential rugby star your brother is offering to move into his home?

And what's his plan for fitting his kid/kids into his workaholic lifestyle? Has he a better, rugby friendly step mother lined up.to move in and do the heavy lifting?

Ultimately I think it’s nephew’s choice because of his age but your brother has set a terrible example to his son about how to deal with difficult conversations. Keeping quiet and hoping that the other person doesn’t find out could be dangerous and cost him friendships and relationships.
Your brother should have had the argument (ideally debate) with his wife on behalf of nephew rather than make him complicit. Mum isn’t unreasonable to be concerned about contact rugby considering lawsuits brought by ex rugby players but may be happier if he’s a position not in the scrum or with info from scientific journals etc By going ahead he is saying that he is more important than her

Its a really difficult one. I can see how the SIL will be so hurt by the years of lies. She would have asked her son how is Saturday was and what he had been up to before he got dropped of at hers and everything he said would have been doctored. He would never have been able to talk about the game properly, tackling and scrums etc are a big part of the game and im assuming not part of non contact rugby.

Given that DS has been playing for 2+ years and clearly loves it. She is now going to need to accept this or drive a huge wedge between the family and potentially lose her son.

As an aside, when we were looking at schools for DD, we went to see a well known prep school and were discussing sport. The school currently plays a lot of rugby but was really trying to push cricket. The head told us that given the risks he doesnt think rugby will be allowed to be played at school in the longer term and the Gov will take the option away.

From what I can gather rugby isn't an extra curricular. Games is mandatory. The parents evenings are for academic subjects. There are so many coaches for each year group, sport and level that the sports dept expects parents to message/ email/ chat to them before, during or after matches etc. there's a ton of opportunities for parents to understand how their child is doing at sport and the school doesn't actively facilitate it.
DB is practically best mates with DNs coach. He certainly sees him more than his actual friends!

Poor kid caught in between warring parents.

But surely one of his teachers, at some point, would have mentioned him being rugby captain, even if it was a conversation about his other classes?

*won't see their value as a human being reduced to what team they can get on rather than who they are a person

What is this about?? Are you talking about rugby specifically or all team sports? I have only seen the horrendous competitiveness in football.

I have sons and the most significant injury was from falling off bikes. My friends son broke his leg in football and another suffered concussion from a school climbing frame. Rugby at school level seems very well supported and risks well managed now due to better knowledge of injuries.

I get the worry as I would prefer to keep my sons safe (so warn about dangers) but I also accept they need to follow their own paths.

The mistake was her not keeping on top of the emails. If she’d been able to nip this in the bud early on, it would have been a lot easier. IMO, it’s too late now. All she can do is explain her concerns to her son, with evidence and calmness, not emotion, but it will be hard to make him stop it now if he wants to continue.

By hiding this, your brother has (purposely?) driven a wedge between your DN and his mother and involved his son in deceiving his loving mum. That’s not good - and it won’t be looked on kindly by any court, if it came to that. It’s not about the rugby so much as the deceit and what could be framed as an attempt to alienate your DN from his mum.

I’d talk to your ex-SIL and sympathise. She’d be unwise to stop the rugby now, but she does have a chance to strengthen her relationship with her son. Who knows what your brother told him or what he thinks? She should be calm and let him know it’s his choice but he should look at evidence x, y and z. If she reacts calmly and sympathetically, she’ll counteract any misconceptions her son has or has been led to believe.

I’m amazed it hasn’t come up in conversation for 2.5 years. Not necessarily between you do and sil but between anyone else at the school.
Not once has it ever be mentioned dn must be a good player.
Id be fit to be tied but I think your sil had to let him play now it’s got this far.

Your question is what to expect.

The answer is it completely depends on SIL and what she is like as a person.

If she calms down and thinks about it she might take the decision that she would rather not alienate her son, in which case very little will happen, other than a loss of trust.

If she doesn't calm down this could be a very difficult situation, and your DB could be managing an angry and vindictive ex for some considerable time. He may also wind up with DN living with him full-time.

My DS is much younger than the OP's DN and has recently switched at school from touch to contact rugby and I didn't realise until I turned up to watch a match as there wasn't any communication about the change and DS didn't think to mention it, i'm not particularly happy about the risk of injury, I wouldn't mind if they banned rugby in schools but I do trust the PE teachers and the guidelines, thankfully DS has quite a keen sense of self preservation on the pitch 🤔still I'd rather it was optional at senior school.

Only child for both. DB heavily invested in DN. DB has had no significant relationships since his divorce - we're pretty certain he just works and parents DN. He's still genuinely baffled by the divorce- in his field it's common for husbands to work stupid hours and for wives to put up with it for the ability to be a SAHP in a nice house with good schools and holidays and cleaners and skiing.... lots of friends and colleagues do time consuming hobbies like long distance cycling or iron man or sailing or golf- he did none of that and threw his considerable energy into becoming a good father. My SIL wanted more.

Agreed, and I have a child at a rugby school.

OP, just steer clear. Your family’s involvement has been the reverse of helpful so far. This is not your battle.

Your sil is being very unreasonable (and so are you for referring to a deception).

Your sil was informed by the school on many occasions that dn is playing rugby, that she chose not to engage is on her.

She needs to back off with her attitude or push her son away, if she prevents dn playing rugby at school, there are plenty of clubs out there.

The thing is, however dangerous rugby may or may not be, the SIL in this scenario chose to spend 2.5 years paying absolutely no attention to that part of her child's life. She ignored the e-mails, didn't attend a single match and never even spoke to his coaches even though she knew he had signed up for touch rugby in year 7 (because she agreed to it).

If you're that fearful about a certain sport wouldn't you show as much interest in it as possible for your child's sake, instead of sticking your head in the sand?

You nephew will never forgive his mum if she's stops him.

Family court is not there to sort out every parenting decision that can’t be agreed upon. Plus no court would say a child is to be stopped from playing a legal organised sport.

Kid is old enough to choose for himself about the rugby

I imagine the school will say it's up to him

Your brother was wrong to encourage his son to keep rugby a secret and to lie by omission to his mum. I grew up in a family where we were made to be complicit in secret-keeping and it took me years to realise that wasn't normal.

However, SIL is very much in the wrong for not reading emails. If school kept her informed for 2 years and she just didn't read any emails then she can't complain. Did none of nephew's school reports have glowing comments about his sporting prowess? Did no staff member or other parent ever say anything to her about it for 2 years, or did she just switch off when someone mentioned sport? Seems there is fault on both sides.

She is unreasonable if she expects nephew to give up his team, and he is old enough to choose to live with dad full-time if he wants, but seems like irreparable damage has probably been done to the co-parenting relationship.

Im with your brother. Its not like is a banned sport, it is widely played in most schools and we are not living in the 1970's where you were encouraged to brush off a knock to the head, times have moved on.
What your DB should have done is have a discussion with her 2.5 years ago along the lines of, "our son wants to play rugby and I fully support him. These are the measures in place these days and if he wants to play I will sign the forms so he can".
But he didnt do that. He needs to apologise for lying but thats all. He needs to keep supporting your DN in his rugby, against the wishes of mum, who, despite your protests, preferred to spend Saturdays with her new partner and seemingly buried her head in the sand about rugby. I cannot believe such an involved parent as you say she is did not know this is what he was doing.

One side needs to apologise and the other needs to be more flexible. I am very concerned about the head injuries issue rather than the general twatting you get on pitch but one of mine loved the sport and played at a good level. At the point where he could have joined the next level teams he opted for another sport which I am happy about but I can still see the enormous benefits that those playing enjoy. I don’t think you can chose for others how the balance that fun/risk life profile. Part of her relationship with all of her children will be supporting them while they do things she might not chose for them.

SIL is being ridiculous and could well lose her son over this. She needs to listen to him and work through it. This should have been sorted 3 years ago though.

I haven't read the full thread.
There seems to be a lot of talk about whether the father or the mother is right, who gets the final say. It's all about the parents and there is little talk of the DN.

If he is captain of the A team then this is about more than rugby; his teammates are his best friends. Does his mother really want to cut him adrift from his band of brothers at a crux time in his teenage life? He will never forgive her.

I assume most children taking part in a dangerous sport have parental permision and if they were paralysed their parents would care for them - pulling together where two parents are on the scene.

I grew up riding horses and then had a horse of my own - I'm sure if I were paralysed my parents would manage as best they could.

However this child's mother has not consented to this child playing contact rugby. She has assessed the risks, decided that she considers them too great and said no.

The ex has gone against her wishes and I hope he would be willing to leave his job and be a full time carer for the rest of his life if it goes horribly wrong. Not that doing that would give his mother her healthy son back or their son his life back.

By hiding this, your brother has (purposely?) driven a wedge between your DN and his mother and involved his son in deceiving his loving mum. That’s not good - and it won’t be looked on kindly by any court, if it came to that. It’s not about the rugby so much as the deceit and what could be framed as an attempt to alienate your DN from his mum.

I have sympathy with this view but the school e-mailed her and she just didn't bother reading - so it dents the argument it was kept from her.

Also he played matches - and she was with boyfriend on Saturday so didn't notice - doesn't take much to spin that to didn't notice due to lies to didn't care enough to ask.

I get why she's annoyed upset and angry but I think she 2.5 years too late and needs to focus on maintaining a good relationship with son.

Also think OP needs to steer as clear as possible - and at 14 were he wants to live is I believe taken into consideration by courts.