To think she shouldn't put him in tights?

[TotoroElla]

Just trying to understand and find a way forward.

A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them.

Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

I'm sorry you and your DS are in this situation and hope DS is making good progress.

I used to put DS in cotton tights because he had nasty eczema on his legs and they stopped him scratching.

Other posters have suggested tights are a way to secure nappies on - a presumably - very active child and it is completely normal in lots of cultures to put boys in tights.

I think you need to understand the whys and wherefores here. If there is a good reason for the tights, mum may feel differently. And FWIW I used to put DS in cotton chinos over his tights so he didn't get too hot.

If there isn't a good reason and you think he is too hot, then you can ask her to stop more forcefully.

Tights being for girls/undignified is bullshit though.

But it’s nursery who have flagged that he is too hot

TotoroElla
Yes, this is so accurate. It might seem petty but his mum hates the fact the FC doesn't put him in matching clothes. She won't put the same tracksuit bottoms on with the top she just puts any old one on. This kills his mum because she wants to be the one dressing him and making him look 'nice.' But she has to tell herself it doesn't matter as long as he is comfortable. But it's hard.

I don't think it's petty at all. It's the nub of this. Mum wants her child to be dressed as she wants him dressed. And that's completely fine. There doesn't need to be another reason.

Thank you that's so kind. And don't worry I will always do my very best to advocate for both of them. I'm sure the FC is doing this with the best of intentions but we need her to listen to us. I have emailed the SW today and this thread really helped me figure out exactly what to say.

Put very well.

Thank you.

It may be bullshit but some DC do comment on it and that can crush a sensitive DC. That should come above our own sensibilities about what clothes DC should wear.

There is no free flow as I explained. The classrooms don't have access to the outside and it is fairly small so each class has a separate 'playtime'. I can't remember how long it is but it's 20-30minutes. The classrooms are warm. The DC do quite a few activities over the morning - they spend time in the Montessori room, yoga/dance/music/cooking, French, 1:1 time with their key worker, toys and crafts, snacks time, circle time so there's quite a lot packed in. My DD went there so I know a lot about it. They are brilliant with SEN DC there.

This is a small private nursery so a bit different to a reception class in school.

Hi Op, You sound almost too forgiving of FC for acting in a way that she believes (in this scenario, it definitely you and his mum) is best.

My dc was a little one a very long time ago now, but I remember how I felt about “should anyone hurt or distress him”….……
….. of course looking back, as much as I tried it was impossible to shield him from people and knocks… and he wasn’t a diagnosed sen child.

Its obviously a lot worse for your dear sis, as her child will find it even harder to navigate his life, and she knows she won’t physically be there to listen to any woes or delights ….

I often wish I could wave a magic wand when I see, or hear of such hard life experiences.

Would you consider coming back to this post to let us know how your email was dealt with, and if there’s anything else us mumsnetters might help?

Even if no one can solve it, I find that in times of deep concern, sharing those times with complete strangers (sometimes better than those too close to you) sort of helps me…
………….. even the act of writing down what my problems are, can help to clarify what I might be able to do, having set it all out in front of me.

I’m so glad your sis has you in her life… you and she have a special bond that will stay with you forever, she has given you the gift of trust, and even though you have a mountain of difficulties within your own little brood, you are lovely and thoughtful to treat your dear little nephew with the love and care he deserves.

YOU…. deserve all the love in the world, and I hope you feel the love and expressions of empathy coming from all of us too.

Big hugs 🤗 x

I am forgiving in that I think it must be a difficult job especially with a non-verbal SEN DC. And I know FC cares like I have seen she has put a picture of mum on little boy's bedside cabinet. But that doesn't mean I'm not determined to resolve this situation rapidly.

Thank you for your kind words. Today has been very difficult. It was the first day back after half term which my DD really struggles with. She had a massive meltdown when I took her to school. She hurt me as she was clinging on so tightly and bit me. I felt broken. The staff were lovely, though and she came out happy.

I went over to see little boy and his mum. Mum was very tired today. Little boy didn't want to leave and cried and said 'mum, mum, mum'. After he had gone we cried and cried.

They’re out for blood tonight. You are right. He shouldn’t be in tights and I don’t understand these people fighting with you. It’s ridiculous

Bless you OP,
there’s no sense in my mind that the pp’s who think you’re unreasonable, can justify what & why they do so.

im so sorry that you had that heart wrenching moment with your DD… even though in your heart, you know there was no malice, and that she loves you with her heart, when you’re low, it will affect you so negatively, coz you are vulnerable too, especially with the extra emotional load you have on your back.

its ok to feel hopeless at times… I pray it will all come good, and you will be so strong, stronger than you’ll give yourself credit for, likely.

Try somehow to give yourself a treat… weather that’s a relaxing warm bath, or a favourite funny film….. give your brain and heart some respite .

G’nite dear…

I can’t believe 56% voted YABU 🤯

Presumably if he’s 4 and doesn’t like the tights / feels too hot in them he’d just take them off?

This! If a 4 year old doesn't want to wear something, believe me they won't!
I'd have thought they'd be good for keeping warm in winter/chillier weather.
So if he's happy in them, what's the problem?
Unless she thinks he's going to catch the gay?! 🙄 😕😁

Are you unable to read what the op has written? Or are you too lazy?

I think they didn’t read the OP just the title. Stupid really

I always wonder if posters who don't read the updates and explanations and who bounce in with a 'state the obvious' (except it isn't) post at the end of a long thread feel like right tits when they realise ...

Thank you so much

He has motor skills issues due to his SEN so can't get them off. He's not happy with them on as I said in my OP he gets too hot.

Why would she 'think he's going to catch the gay?' Being homosexual isn't something you catch.

Maybe one of them could report back?! 😉

Oh dear, how to make yourself look as thick as shit. Well done. Wade in days later with your pathetic comments that make you look like an idiot.

This may come out a bit more bluntly that I intend it to, but have you (or mum) tried genuinely and politely asking the FC directly why he's wearing tights and having a conversation about it? It'll probably get better results than this back and forth with the SW, and it might even be that mum or you could give the FC some advice.
-It might be that it's to stop his nappy leaks (as you've mentioned he's 4 and still in nappies)
-It might be to actually prevent him being teased (you've mentioned several people think he might be teased for wearing tights, but to be honest I'd think it'd be more of an issue for him to be teased for still wearing nappies at 4, if he gets changed and is wearing tights, they're what's visible, but if its socks, the nappy would be too)
-It might be because he actually picks them out himself (and you may be able to work out if there's a reason for this that could translate to other clothing)
-It might be because he's shown more interest in them than socks, and FC finds it easier to get him to wear them or keep them on (which may be different to mum's experience)
-It might be because he is genuinely cold in the FCs house, or they spend a lot of time outside
-It might be that he's got sensory issues with the jogging bottoms that have come to light due to the recent changes in his living situation, so the tight alleviate them

I think the way the SW has gone about this is very wrong, and her concern about it being a girls item of clothing is something it's fair for the FC to ignore, if it'd been about a pink tshirt for example, but it was his favourite, you'd probably be hoping the FC did ignore the SW.
A better way to raise it may be to speak to nursery directly and let them know what you've seen in terms of him seeming too warm, ask if they've seen it too, and ask that they let FC know that 'he usually seems too warm, and they often have to remove his tights are nursery as he's going red and blotchy, physically warm to touch etc. So could he please be sent with socks, or generally cooler clothing in future, if he needs to wear tights on the way due to staying warm on the walk there's room for him to get changed there' Then you can mention to SW that you've noticed that the clothes he's wearing means he often seems too warm, so you've mentioned to nursery and asked them of request FC dresses him in something cooler as they'd noticed it too.
If it turns out he's super keen on the tights, then could you suggest he wears something different over them, so the tights are his main layer, shorts, skirt, lightweight trousers etc? I also think this would go someway to reinforcing the point that it's not the tights you're concerned with, but that he's wearing too many layers which is making him too hot.

He doesn't have nappy leaks. His vest covers his nappy - he's only 3 and there will be others at nursery wearing nappies/pull ups. He doesn't pick his clothes and keeps socks on fine. He has a warm suit to wear if need be outside. But mostly too warm for that anyway. He is fine with wearing his usual clothes without tights.

It is not fair for the FC to ignore instructions from the SW and the mother. I don't think the SW has done anything wrong. We will have a meeting next week with the FC, her supporting SW and our SW to get to the bottom of it. The problem with properly speaking to the FC at pick ups/drop offs is little boy is often upset which makes it difficult and we have tried to be so polite and friendly with the FC so not been direct enough, I think. No, I wouldn't hope the FC would ignore the SW atall - that's no way to go about things.

And it is the tights specifically I'm concerned with as they are so uncomfortable for those with sensory needs. Nursery do take them off when he is there but they'd prefer not to as he doesn't like them changing his clothes. They have written that in his communication book and spoken to FC. I have bought little boy 7 new pairs of socks to take to the FC with him today. I'm sure this will be resolved next week.

You've said multiple times in your posts that he's 4, including in the original message.
As you're not there every moment of the day, and haven't had the conversation with the FC, you can't say whether he's choosing them himself or why the FC is dressing him in them.

If his favourite outfit was a fairy costume, and the SW said 'don't let him wear that, it's undignified because it's for girls' would you be having the same reaction? The FC should be respectful of mum's wishes to an extent, but about something like what clothes he's wearing should definitely ignore a SWs (slightly odd) opinion if it's in the best interests of the child. Has SW even mentioned that mum has requested, or that the issue is related to him being too hot?
I know FC with older kids who've had similar things said to them about boys not wearing nail varnish and things like 'you should be sending him out to play football with the other boys in your street, not letting him stay inside playing dress up', and that's definitely not in the best interests of the kids, so those comments have rightfully been ignored.

Some children with sensory needs actually prefer tight clothing, so it may be that the FC is experimenting with this, or is seeing issues which you aren't, like nappy leakage. Honestly you don't know until you manage to actually speak to her. Could you possibly ask to be have a meeting with SW and FC, and possibly mum too? And then you can all actually discuss this. If this is the only 'issue', then it sounds like the FC is doing a pretty good job, so she's definitely due some positive feedback too if the boy is settled and seems generally happy otherwise.
You could perhaps set up some time where you and FC and the boy get to see each other in an environment that isn't nursery pick up on an ongoing basis so you can raise small things like this without having to just send word through the SW, and then you'd get some time with your relative too.

Yes, sorry, I was having a mad 5 minutes! He is 4 (only just so.) But lots of 3yos in his class.

I know he isn't choosing his own clothes as he doesn't have that skill yet. (And even if he was picking the tights I think he needs to be dressed so he is comfortable not just putting him in something uncomfortable because he 'chose' them.)

Re:fairy costume it would depend if he chose it himself and if it was comfortable and weather appropriate. And yes, SW has told the FC he is too hot and we don't want him in tights, as have we. I don't agree you should just ignore the SW. Raise it as an issue with their own SW if they feel so strongly that he must be put in tights. The point is little boy is not choosing this - it is a completely different issue to boys choosing to dress up/put nail varnish on. Are these boys SEN/non-verbal or have they expressed a wish to wear nail varnish/play dress up? Who did the comments come from?

Some DC may like that but little boy doesn't. I think she has had her 'experiment' now if that is what it is but he is not a lab rat to continue to 'experiment' on. We already know how to look after him, there is no need for experiments!

She is having no issues with nappies leaking (I know this as it has been discussed separate to the tights issue.)

As I have said we are having a meeting next week. And a DC being hot and uncomfortable frequently may not be a real issue to you but it is to us. I do see her regularly when picking up/dropping off little boy and do raise issues as well as them being written in the communication book. This has only gone through the SW as she has ignored our instructions. I see little boy 3x per week.