To feel sorry for Shamima Begum?

[EWAS]

I do, I’m afraid. I think she should be able to come home. She was 15! Have any men been stripped of their citizenship that we know about?

Who are these 'protective services'

Her parents for a start!

Where did she get the money to go? Who was checking her online presents? Her dad was an ISIS supporter - maybe he helped?

She was a British citizen and a child at the time and you don't think there would have been efforts to have her released or rescued, just like there's efforts to release hostages in other similar situations. You think our Govt just lets people rot in those situations? Isis didn't control all of Syria, and there were other British citizens who were prisoners/hostages/victims who were released, but only those who were considered victims. ISIS were strategic and Shamima had the huge advantage of being a British citizen, not some poor Syrian or Iraqi girl with no leverage - so they wouldn't have fought hard to keep her if she had wanted to leave.

It's hard to negotiate for the release of a citizen who thinks you're the enemy and doesn't actually want to go home.

She joined a terror organisation. I am afraid to say that I think she is probably not very clever and that on top of that, something has gone very wrong in the run up to her contact with Isis online - no ability/interest in critical thought, no trusted adult to discuss the ideas with, lack of trust in authority and information from mainstream news etc.

I feel for the parents of the two girls who died.

Where is your evidence Shamina's dad was an Isis Supporter, please?

Police failed us, say families of girls feared to have gone to Syria | Islamic State | The Guardian

Here is the evidence that the police and schools knew, but failed to tell the children's parents.

Teenagers do some stupid shit! BUT, teenagers also do some evil shit- murder, abuse, torture... there's a difference between normal teenage stuff like drinking too much cider, having underage sex, doing graffiti, running away from home and stying at a friends, bunking off school, not doing any homework, chatting back to the teachers etc. and then there's joining a foreign terrorist group, murdering a toddler, torturing animals and other worse things I can't even think of! Can a teen in that state of mind ever come back from that and be a normal member of society?

No one is born a terrorist. At some point every single one of them was brainwashed and groomed in one way or another so where do we draw the line at sympathising with terrorists and making them accountable for their actions?

@OodlesPoodle there's plenty of British citizens in there. She's an adult now, she can stay with them

@Notthegodofsmallthings

That's not 'proof' at all

marriage to the Dutch man

Who's in jail in Syria last time I heard.

His family have disowned him.

Again, the guy clutching the teddy and sobbing about his "innocent" child was Amira Abase's dad, not Shamima's

As far as I know Shamima's father is back in Bangladesh

I agree OP, and I keep getting shot down! She was a child, who was groomed and radicalised by a group of incredibly dangerous and manipulative people....let's face it probably men!! And I can't imagine the life she has had since, I think it's pretty shocking that she has been treated this way to be honest.

Shamima said her children died from starvation but the question that has always bothered me is how come Shamima and her husband looked well nourished and survived? Did they deliberately keep all the food for themselves and starve their children? Makes you wonder.

Guardian not good enough for you?

How about the BBC Syria girls: Met Police chief apologises for letter failure - BBC News

So, just to respond to this complete derail: I think it's worth noting that (a) the UN is known to have an anti-Israel bias (see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations#Bias) and (b) strip searching, though an understandable precaution in the circumstances, is considered sexual assault.

Until I see validated accounts of the IDF slicing off women's breasts and kicking them around in the dirt, forcing a young lad at a festival to watch his girlfriend being gang raped before they are both killed, posting social media videos of a guy having his dick cut off and shoved in his mouth so that his family and friends can watch him die, hammering nails into a woman's thighs and genitals, slashing women to shreds while raping them, etc etc (the horrible list goes on...), I'm afraid I support the IDF's efforts in the face of real evil (while acknowledging, of course, that the war is ghastly).

This

Excellent podcast on this very topic discussing the morality legality and psychology of this whole situation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fbbsc0

Serious question, would she be able to be tried for terrorism when the presumed offences took place another country? And how would any witnesses be found?

@RosieTheChi Yes probably, I don't know. If she has committed that crime she should come home, stand trial and be punished if found guilty.

Racist and infantilising nonsense.

Well given she was groomed I am not surprised nor shocked by her comments. She’s been taught the west are murderers and that beheading the enemy is fine. Like many people in wars believe it’s justified to kill the enemy. She was still 15 when she was groomed and persuaded that life in Syria would be the answer to her dreams, or whatever reason she went out there for. If my daughter who is 15 made a mistake at 15 I would certainly view her culpability as much lower than her 20 and 30yr old brothers. Children don’t always make rational decisions, not least those who are groomed by people like Islamist terrorists. Don’t under estimate how much the religion was used too, twisted and made to convince these girls their fate lay in going to Syria.

How do you think these men became the way they are? Exactly the same way as you describe, radicalised by others. Does your sympathy extend to them?

I would also be interested what motivated a British born south Asian teenager, to want to train as a killing machine. Was she marginalised by British society and her peers.

Was this going to be a gotcha to come home and slaughter white westerners, like a high school shooter would.

I know she was groomed online initially, but there must of been hate there in the first place. Otherwise how would the Isis groomers be able to get in her head.
Isis whole ideology is hate for westerners and wanting to wipe us out.

To a degree, but it does feel more sinister to me when a group of adults men target teenage girls though!

This

She followed her best friend Sharmerna out there.... she set it up for her and her 2 other female friends

Female led