To feel sorry for Shamima Begum?

[EWAS]

I do, I’m afraid. I think she should be able to come home. She was 15! Have any men been stripped of their citizenship that we know about?

I’m just using your logic.

Given that the Home Office and justice system had access to the whole story, I'm happy to trust their judgement.

If the issue was that she was thrown in prison in the UK or in Syria, or anywhere in fact, I wouldn't feel sorry for her at all.

But somehow I am uncomfortable with stripping her of her citizenship. It feels wrong. I know it's a silly analogy, but it's like when you're a parent, your kids are always your kids no matter what they do.

I feel in the same way, if she's a problem then maybe she should be our problem to deal with.

Very much agree with this. Because she’s not white people don’t care about her.

She was 15 ffs.

I do feel sorry for her, she was groomed and trafficked at 15 years old, married to a man who, under British law, raped her as she was under the age of consent, has lost three children and now lives stateless in a refugee camp. Yes she was stupid, gullible and made horrendously bad decisions. But has she actually committed a crime herself?

If so she should be brought to the UK and stand trial for her crimes and dealt with appropriately. If she remains a threat to national security the UK should step up and take responsibility for her and let her return here, under life long supervision if need be. If convicted murderers and peadophiles are allowed to live in communities, apparently safely under licence, I don't see why this cannot be the case with this woman.

She was born and raised here, she is British, but I don't believe that this has anything to do with the decision to revoke her citizenship, and everything to do with the Tories not wanting to lose face, and votes, by reversing a their decision. Its a purely political stance on the government's part.

I am glad I'm not being judged for the rest of my life for things I did when I was 15.

How is that relevant. She does not have another nationality- just would be able, in principle to apply for another one.

So if a British born Jewish 15 year old decides to go to Israel and join the IDF to join the illegal bombing and killing in Gaza- brainwashed by his parents of the local Synagogue- would not be allowed to return later, when Israel is accuded of illegal war crimes:

What about my 15 year old nephew, British born, but who because of his grand-parents could in principle apply for Irish Nationality- if he goes to fight in ... wherever, for whomever- brainwashed by a local gang or faith, etc- should he not be able to return and face the Law here at a later stage. Of course he would. Because he is born and bred British. But he is vaguely CofE, blond with blue eyes- and so is all his family. However abhorrent or even criminal his actions perpetrated abroad.

This.

Some of the comments here are just awful. How many of you have a 15 year old daughter? I have a 14 year old daughter and there is zero ambiguity in the fact that she knows beheading people and committing acts of terrorism are wrong.

All this harping on about how she was only 15 - guess what, only needs to wait until her next birthday to be able to smoke, get married, join the army etc

It's utterly ridiculous to play the "she was only a child" hand-wringing card. She knew exactly what she was getting into, and should never ever be allowed back in this country to spread her poisonous views - or worse...

I do. I can see both sides, tbh.

She was most likely trafficked as a particularly impressionable teen. She has lost three children.

On the other hand, the way she comes across is… odd. She seems to have limited comprehension, shows very little emotion, very little remorse. Quite a strange character. I’m wildly speculating now, but sometimes I wonder if she could actually be pretty high up on the psychopathy spectrum.

Or, maybe she just comes across like that now because she’s witnessed terrible things, been brutalised, grown up too fast, and experienced horrific loss.

Idk. I don’t trust her, honestly. But I do also feel a bit sorry for her.

She deserves everything that she now has. She betrayed her country to support ISIS. No reason we should take her back. She needs to understand decisions she makes have consequences. She chose to leave the UK and go to support ISIS. She chose not to apply for citizenship from Bangladesh. If she's stateless it's her own fault. Perhaps she'll think more carefully in the future before making rash decisions.

@Nellieinthebarn how you getting her to the U.K. then?

I don’t care one bit about her or the bleeding heart lefties supporting her. Yes, she is being made an example of. Good. People learn by example. Don’t do what she did.

I'm going to point out the very obvious statement that I completely disagree with her crimes and don't actually feel sorry for her. If she ever came back I think the risks would need to be carefully managed.

I am concerned about the concept of a person's citizenship being stripped when they were born here. What other crimes do we do this for?

Completely agree @MrsDoylesTea at 15 you know right from wrong.

I was all ready for my head to explode when I saw your first two sentences. Then I read the rest of your excellent post. I couldn't agree more.

So exactly the same as anyone else accused of a crime?

Unless we wish to be like Russia and "get rid" of people where there isn't enough evidence, then that is what we have to accept.

No, that is not how grooming works. It doesn't make murder and mutilation and beheading and rape seem like a good option. What the hell are you on about?

Do you genuinely think grooming is making inappropriate things seem ok?? NO, it is giving victims what they want to build trust and gain compliance -be it attention, love, companionship, money, a home OR as in her case the opportunity to put her hatred and sociopathy into practice.

Do you understand that they would never have risked approaching her and her reporting them to the police if they hadn't been entirely sure she was up for whatever they wanted? By testing her gradually - probably start by showing her photos of dead people or talking about how much they hated their families and wish they were dead - and gauged her reaction. A normal, healthy 15 year old would have recoiled and shut the conversation down or told a parent or friend, and felt fearful. She didn't so they knew she was a kindred spirit.

That's not grooming. That's recruiting.

I don’t believe for a moment she was groomed and didn’t know what she was getting into. We all knew. Unless she was of low intelligence and has some sort of learning disability? She was sick and twisted to go off there like she did. Everyone knew what ISIS were up to.

Because she is British, born and bred, and does not have another nationality- so it is against the Law. Nothing to do with 'sympathy'!

Christ alive inappropriate use do that quote, it has nothing to do with Ms Begum

I don’t feel any sympathy for her at all. She has never shown genuine remorse. It will be risk to let her back in and sets a very dangerous precedent. She made her choice. i believe people with radical views don’t change their minds, but may hide them when it suits their purpose. 100% the right decision.

Trafficked

I don’t want SB back in the UK but I think restoring her citizenship and presumably imprisoning her here following due process is the right thing to do.

As PPs have said, she was a very young teenager when her grooming began, and she has been through a huge amount of trauma. My fear is that refusing her entry to the UK is being used as further propaganda.

My point was that it's not as simple as people appear to think.

100s of former ISIS fighters have returned to the UK and not had citizenship revoked.