To feel sorry for Shamima Begum?

[EWAS]

I do, I’m afraid. I think she should be able to come home. She was 15! Have any men been stripped of their citizenship that we know about?

Exactly. And the thing is, I don’t think she even had dual nationality which is why she’s now stateless. She’d never applied for a passport/citizenship in her parents place of birth which I believe she was required to do to be able to claim that nationality. So the whole thing was just very odd and when you look at in the context of Windrush and British born Caribbean teens and adults being deported , it’s all very rotten.

I want to comment on those suggesting that if she were allowed back she'd automatically be jailed, that if tried in court she'd automatically be found guilty - and those commenting she would be "watched like a hawk, so couldn't get involved in acts of terrorism">

1. Bringing a case against her would take a long time. It's far from certain the CPS could amass evidence that she was involved in terrorist activities in Syria. It's not a definite that she would be remanded whilst awaiting a trial (just because people think these things "should" happen doesn't make them automatically happen).
2. She would be tried before a jury, who would decided based on whatever evidence was presented - and on her defence - whether or not she was guilty. This is obviously not a certainty. Nor is a long sentence were she to be found guilty.
3. The "watched like a hawk" thing - do you know exactly how many people are currently under surveillance as potential or suspected terrorists and how many security personnel there are to "watch" them? The Manchester Arena bomber HAD been on a watchlist and had been removed, because of no apparent evidence of "activity"... SB wouldn't be assigned a team of people to "watch" her.

It isn't a "done deal" that she'd be locked up and rendered harmless. That's all I'm saying here.

I despair at the lack of understanding of being human shown on these threads.

This child to woman was trapped in a propaganda machine for years and years of her formative youth. Most adults I know are unable to think outside of their social circles, and believe stuff that is demonstrably untrue if their circle tells them its true. Its not even remotely surprising that she would repeat the things that were the norm in the brainwashing environment in which she grew up.

I mean, there are people here who believe its morally justified to leave a young woman stateless and homeless and jobless for the rest of her life, because their social circles tell them that is the right thing. I really don't see those people having that much of a moral high ground.

I listened to the Podcast and while I feel huge sympathy for her I think the right decision was made. She not only went to support ISIS but seemed to have been actively involved in and supporting really horrible and evil things. I can't see how she can come back. There would not be enough evidence in this country to convict her even though she has clearly assisted in some awful things. She would come back and then be able to either live on state benefits or earn a living by becoming a 'celebrity'. I wish the government could have legally been able to agree for her to either go to prison or commit to spending her life talking to young people. Really sad.

Yes I feel sorry for her and think she should be brought back to her home country and punished appropriately.

She was young and stupid (we've all been there)

@MySugarBabyLove

The argument that she was a child no longer exists. She was a child. Now she’s a 24 year old woman. She was an adult when she expressed glee at the murder of the Manchester arena bombing victims.

And I don’t believe there ever were any babies. Even the one they showed on that clip of her in the refugee camp, she was so detached from it I don’t believe it was actually her’s, it was just a convenient baby to have to try to elicit sympathy, and people didn’t buy it.

YES to this. 💯

Also, as a number of people have said, I don't believe she has had 3 babies. I don't believe she even had one.

For the people saying she was only a child and we all make mistakes- curious if that also applies to the killers of James Bulger? they were even younger than her at the time and came from horrifically abusive backgrounds but we all make mistakes right? so they should also be forgiven I presume...

No, not remotely. She fucked around and found out. Save your sympathy for those who deserve it.

a) it doesn't matter whether or not she had any babies, or is/is not a nice person - this is about a two-tier system of citizenship

b) ISIS wives were supposed to have children, not use contraception, so it would be very surprising if she didn't have babies. If she had two previous babies die, had experienced trauma, and was living in conditions where it was likely her recent baby would not survive, then it is understandable she would be detached

I don't understand all the bleeding hearts on here. A lot of us made mistakes in our teens, yes, but they mostly weren't the kind that involved cults which delight in beheading innocent people. Good lord.

S as byway..... how would she actually get OUT of Syria?

😂She was young and stupid (we've all been there).

Yep like we have all left the country joined a terrorist organisation, involved with beheading and killing people, actively involved in punishing other women under sharia law and numerous other atrocities that have not been made available to the public. She is now in her mid 20`s FFs, she had plenty of time to say this is not good and come home, but not it was only until ISIS were overthrown in here area.

She was a minor when she allegedly committed the crime and should therefore be treated accordingly. Brought bank to the UK, investigated and charged if necessary. I think her treatment by this govt breaches her human rights.
Opportunities to prevent her and her friends from leaving the UK were messed up by the authorities. They have a responsibility towards her.

We don't really have evidence she is a sociopath.

We do have evidence that she has three dead children, was married to a violent man who believed it was her role to obey him, lived in a war zone, and had to flee for her and her child's life. So you know, there's clear evidence for the trauma response thing.

Anyway

Yes, to the point where they should have a second chance under supervision.

From what has been reported, one of them has continued to offend when released from prison, and has been recalled. The other has lived in the community under supervision without incident. Mary Bell was also released and did not reoffend, and had her own child and - as far as is reported in the press - has been a good and caring mother.

She was essentially groomed. Us washing our hands of her is shameful.

Shocking glib minimisation. We have not all been there. At all
Dont be so nonchalant
its a catastrophic set of events and majority of us will thankfully never have been there.

She was born here. She is British. I don't agree with taking away her citizenship. Its like a modern day banishment

Come on mumsnet..... how you going to physically get her out of there??

Who is going to risk their life getting her out??

Tbh her media presence was very foolish. I dare say that has been relevant in terms of the risk she presents. Her interviews and conduct will have been taken into account. I don't know why she thought it was a good idea. It wasn't

Completely agree. Op yabu.

Shanmeful? So.... how is she going to be removed from the camp if we were to accept her back.....how? It's heavily guarded

Oh, and Jamie Bulger's killers ought to have been moved to an adult prison, not let out. I don't care that Robert Thomson seems to have reformed. We have lost all sight of the fact that prison is a PUNISHMENT. It isn't to do with 'rehabilitiating offenders' it is about keeping them out of society. Since we no longer execute them, we need to do the next best thing.

Prisons are not 'punishment' AT ALL!!!

How odd! What do you think happens to people in there?