To feel sorry for Shamima Begum?

[EWAS]

I do, I’m afraid. I think she should be able to come home. She was 15! Have any men been stripped of their citizenship that we know about?

Agree with this. I can’t see her realistically being a threat. She was a child. I get it wasn’t a one off mistake, but she was groomed. What happened to the Prevent anti terrorist grooming strategy? Seems like it failed here and she’s paying the price. I do agree if she has committed crimes she should be tried and punished for those crimes. But that doesn’t mean leaving her stateless.

She IS a criminal.

The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10.

She was old enough to know that murder and torture are wrong, and she chose to leave home (something which took a lot of intelligence to organise. -even if someone else was financing it - and a lot of cunning to achieve) and join an organisation which killed and tortured.

She deserves no sympathy whatsoever.

I never did before, but my daughter is roughly the same age as she was when she left. My daughter is nowhere near mature enough to make those decisions or understand the implications of them. The difference being my daughter is obsessed with helping animals and not terrorists but the level of passion they hold at that age is enormous. It’s horrific that a 15 year old channeled that passion into terrorism but it should be her parents held fully accountable for that alongside her.

I am the same. For me
1 - she wasn't even old enough to vote, why wasn't she arrested and rehabilitated?

2- How does she differ from young children who murder and are later released?

3 - I feel like she is being treated like this because of her ethnicity, had she been a different ethnicity would she have been stripped of her citizenship and made stateless? Which is by the way illegal....

4 - There have been other British people allowed back - why not her?

5- Are we then all equal under British law or are some people working, paying the same taxes etc but their children and grandchildren will all be 2nd class citizens in this country?

They chased a dream of killing people they were ideologically opposed to.

She wasn't directly involved in the fighting only because they wouldn't allow her to; all three girls actively wanted to be involved in it. Intent, and a complete lack of remorse, matters.

It's also worth bearing in mind that terrorism like this only makes up 20% of the instances of people being stripped of their citizenship - the other 80% are because of fraud.

This would be really interesting to watch. Do you have a link or remember the name?

That would make it really easy for her wouldn't it?

So say she gets a long prison sentence but with good behaviour and 'radicialisation' she gets out early? But really in reality she's just fooling people and she holds the same views as before? Do you think that's right then?

What about one of the other fathers of one girl who took his daughter along to marches who were pro ISIS? And then wonders why his daughter ran off to join them?

The vast majority of Muslims aren't like them. These are the extremists. But they hold extreme views and influence gullible people.

She's is not our problem she ceased to be our problem when she left and stayed there. The only reason she is wanting to come back now is simply because ISIS in that area she was were defeated. If they were still going strong she would not be wanting to come back to the UK but still happily murdering people.

They listen to advice, of course.

But also have an eye out for popular political decisions. They don't 'only' go on advice and 'instruction' (the security services have no power to instruct them).

The decision was NOT made by the security services, it was made by the government. With a view to popularity.

I think UK citizens should be up in arms that she was smuggled out of the country by Canadian security services. I think she made terrible choices but I don’t think a 15 year old school girl had much chance holding her own against being trafficked by a nation state.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62726954

There is nothing wrong with stripping someone of their citizenship IF they have another, if not, then they are our problem, not anyone else's.

So what if a few 100 have had their citizenship revoked, what about the rest? estimated to be between 850 and 1500 ??? not all died there either, .the majority returned to the UK and suffered no punishment

She enjoyed being an enforcer with the morality police, making other women's lives a misery. I'm glad we don't have to pay to keep her in jail. Hopefully she'll just have a miserable and useless life, but she'll probably find a way to wheedle her way into a position where she can exercise some sort of bogus authority and carry on ruining other lives. The fairest justice would be to make her wear one of the explosive vests she stitched bombs into so that they couldn't be removed without detonating. Poor innocent little girl my arse.

She enjoyed being an enforcer with the morality police, making other women's lives a misery. I'm glad we don't have to pay to keep her in jail. Hopefully she'll just have a miserable and useless life, but she'll probably find a way to wheedle her way into a position where she can exercise some sort of bogus authority and carry on ruining other lives. The fairest justice would be to make her wear one of the explosive vests she stitched bombs into so that they couldn't be removed without detonating. Poor innocent little girl my arse.

No sympathy from me. Let her stay there.
She was entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship up to age 21 and she chose not to take it. She's made herself stateless

They chased a dream of killing people they were ideologically opposed to.

They were sold an idea of an Islamic paradise where everyone would be pious and fulfilled. Men who went out there were willing to fight for that paradise. The girls knew they wouldn't be fighting - they thought they were going to live in this perfect place. We can see how ugly and brutal ISIS are, but Begum wouldn't have known it.

Surely she has been prosecuted for involvement in any crimes she took part in and with the usual standards of proof.

I haven't followed all her background so I can't comment on the above.

The decision was NOT made by the security services, it was made by the government. With a view to popularity.

Yet all three courts of appeal have agreed with the decision, so its not based on popularity is it. She is no longer an innocent teenager, she is a 20 something year old terrorist.

Here race and colour is irrelevant.

She was entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship up to age 21 and she chose not to take it. She's made herself stateless

Bangladesh refused to take her.

That's a total load of bollocks.

I think most sane people realise this idealised life, 100 virgins in heaven etc is bullshit. Begum et al would also if they'd read up anything on ISIS/Syria etc would realise that it's not paradise either. If they travel and choose to believe rubbish then that's on them I'm afraid. At her age, 15/16, I knew a fair bit about the outside world and definitely would not have done what she and her friends did, though yes of course I was foolish and naive at times.

Good on Bangladesh, why should they have to deal with her?

Not sure of the link but I saw something similar to this. You can tell she's lying.

I agree with you OP.

She was 15, groomed by very skilled and manipulative adults who wanted to use her as a breeding mare. Once there she was locked up with all the other brood mares, who were not allowed out of the 'women's house' until they married.

From the journalistic investigation ' I am not a monster' series about her, she appears to have been a complete nonentity. She was not an ISIS insider.

She was a child groomed for sex and breeding, she is our citizen and our responsibility. She should not be left stateless.

Its a disgrace.

I think most sane people realise this idealised life, 100 virgins in heaven etc is bullshit. Begum et al would also if they'd read up anything on ISIS/Syria etc would realise that it's not paradise either.

They were kids. They watched videos of what looked like an ideal world - this world, not the afterlife. Adults contacted them and encouraged them. Kids can be very vulnerable to grooming, and that's precisely what happened here. It would have given them a sense of identity and purpose. Grown adults can be tempted by propaganda - kids are even more at risk.

Did people feel as sympathetic for Jon Venables and Robert Thompson who were 10 when they brutally murdered James Bulger??

People who feel sorry for her are seeing her as they view their own children or children you know. She is very different because the average child doesn't have the kind of hatred in her where blowing up people and war seemed attractive.

This wasn't the sort of 'grooming' where all children want is love, attention, romance that paedophiles give them. It isn't even a case of children in war torn countries who join rebel groups to stay alive, or are forced into it. Or even kids who grow up in estates and get blackmailed/forced into joining gangs or face being bullied/terrorised/alienated from friends.

She had none of those pressures. And she was aware of the cause she was joining - not based in patriotism or survival, but a bloodlust and fanaticism. She may have been 15, but she was old enough to know death and terrorism and the difference between right and wrong. She knew other children were dying as a result of the terrorism, and she still wanted to be a part of it.

I have no sympathy for her. If she hadn't been caught or punished, who knows how many lives would be ended because of her. Terrorism isn't a joke, and the people who believe in it are not reasonable or rational - they don't value life in the same way. And that goes for British children who give up the comforts of their home to join this reign of terror.

Of course, she seems sympathetic now because her plan didn't work! If it had, there's be death surrounding her.

The courts do not agree she is a terrorist. They were not deciding on that. The court case was just about whether the Home Secretary has the legal right to make the decision he did.