To feel sorry for Shamima Begum?

[EWAS]

I do, I’m afraid. I think she should be able to come home. She was 15! Have any men been stripped of their citizenship that we know about?

EWAS - Since 2006 roughly about 170 odd people have been stripped of their British Citizenship due to public security risk, I would bet the majority of those are men.

No, if she has committed any crimes then put her on trial.

The British government is not, in theory, allowed to deprive a British citizen of their citizenship if that is the only form of citizenship they have. Doing so would make them “stateless”, which is illegal under the UN Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.Mar 7, 2022

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/40633-should-government-be-able-make-british-citizens-st

Do you know how many people are in this country who went to fight for ISIS?

We probably have a lot worse than her arriving on boats in Calais every day - the genie is out of the bottle - I feel sorry for her - but I would not want her back in the UK.

It isn't about feeling sorry for her. It is about not having a system of citizenship that makes some people second class citizens because they can be stripped of citizenship on the basis of a theoretical entitlement to a citizenship they have never held or tried to acquire.

DD is a dual citizen - that brings potential benefits and potential disadvantages. The advantages and disadvantages balance each other out.

Shamima Begum has only ever held UK citizenship

There was an instant search to find her.
But the search showed pretty immediately that she had been radicalised and had left the uk and so wasn’t treated as kidnapping.
”Groomed into terrorism and kidnapped”isn’t a thing - tbh maybe it should be, but it isn’t - whether you are white, blonde, black etc. It’s called being radicalised and it’s not treated as kidnapping/grooming.

What a load of rubbish, people might agree with you if you could even get the basic facts straight it was the UK security services that made the decision not the government, they are acting on this information as is the courts. 😂

Best to let organisations with all the data and intelligence decide if she’s a threat to national security. IMO

I refer you back to my previous post. I grew up surrounded by terrorists. Was raised by them. I still knew it was wrong. As did most of my friends. The ones who did succumb to the influence, are still the same 40 years later. They're still as dangerous and bigoted as ever, and are currently spreading their hate on to their own children. You could argue they were victims of brainwashing, but it doesn't change that they are horrible people full of hatred now. This is who they are.

Plenty. 217 people have had their British citizenship withdrawn under similar circumstances ("for the public good") between 2010 and 2022. There were 104 in 2017 alone, after the collapse of ISIS in Syria.

She's just the only one who made it into the news.

Why would I know I don't work for the Security services do you?

That information is direct from the court documents. So what is your point, exactly?

I do feel sorry for her. Her maturity of level at 15 doesn't magically increase because her crime is considered more henious. She is just as susceptible to grooming as any other 15 year old. She should not be left stateless. She could have been brought back and put in prison to serve out a long term, and undergone assessment and de-radicalization before being allowed into society. But she shouldn't be abandoned like this.

It feel a bit sorry for her because she made a massive mistake but then I think of the 15yr Yazidi girls who have been raped and murdered by the Islamic state. I find that unbearably sad compared to the rights and wrongs of her citizenship status.

My view is that she was a child who was groomed and radicalised. She was a child victim who has been treated as a criminal and had her life destroyed.

So Bangladesh has a generous policy of giving citizenship to the children of citizens , so does the uk an most of the world.
Feel a bit sorry for her due to age, but more so for the lady who’s innocent son was beheaded.

How did the court say it was not unlawful today?

I think future generations will see her story as tragic. She was enticed away aged fifteen. She lost THREE babies. She's stuck in this refugee camp with nowhere to go, no prospects. It's not like she was involved in fighting; she's not committed atrocities. I know she was in the 'morality police' but she would have been under all kinds of pressures while she was out there. She and the other two girls chased a dream that was nothing like reality, and ended up being given to men in this deeply patriarchal system. I just don't understand the hate for her.

Ultimately, we're giving someone this extreme punishment for something they did at fifteen. Youth is usually taken into account with punishment, but not in this case.

I don't feel one bit sorry for her. She was old enough to know what she was doing.

Plus her family (dad/mum etc) they must be extremely blind or stupid and potentially hold the same views as her, so if they're playing the 'we didn't know anything' that's bullshit.

It's a bit embarrassing to accuse other posters of not getting the 'basic facts straight', and then showing your own ignorance of the basic facts.

Sajid Javid made the decision as the then Home Secretary, in his position as a member of the government. The security services, thank goodness, do not have the authority to make these sorts of decision.

Shamima Begum loses appeal against removal of British citizenship | Shamima Begum | The Guardian

'Three judges unanimously concluded that the then home secretary, Sajid Javid, had the power to set aside concerns she may have been a victim of child trafficking when she travelled in secret with two friends from east London to Syria in 2015.

The court also held that Javid had acted lawfully even if it meant Begum, now 24, was effectively stateless – because she theoretically held Bangladeshi citizenship, which applied up to her 21st birthday, at the time of his decision in 2019.'

You apparently think it's perfectly fine to let another country fund it when it's not their problem.

She was involved with ISIS/ISIL, Jihadi John and all that, quite happy to be involved of torture of British or other nationality victims plus viewed etc execution of Iraqui etc spies. She saw all this and spoke about it in a positive way IIRC. Enticed away... yes she was 15 and immature but she still had the choice to say no and not just blindly follow her friends to travel to Syria via Turkey.

Do you know how government function they only go on advice and instruction from the specialist services, are you saying Javid made this decision on his own and would have gone against the service. Have you read all the official documentation? 🙄

On the fence, yes she was groomed but by the time she travelled she would have been fully aware of what the caliphate involved, slavery, the executions etc. Even at 15 I would have been disgusted. I think she was sold a lie but she also knew a lot of the truth so my pity is there but muted.

But yeah she is our responsibility whether we like it or not, dumping her and women like her on the Kurds is deeply unfairly to them. They deserve more from the Uk than this.

Her appeal has been rejected again and I can’t help but to think they know something we don’t know.

Then she needs to be prosecuted for involvement in any crimes she took part in. With the usual standards of proof.