To have a litter of puppies?

[BeeKeeping]

I'm fully aware that this will be controversial - but hear me out..

It's not always possible to rescue a dog. When we were looking we had a 1y0 and a 3yo, chickens, 3 cats and (rightly) no rescue would entertain us. Lots of families have young children/ other pets and need a puppy in order to ensure that they have the correct exposure to all of these things.

I think in the past it was common for 'back yard' breeders, folks with good bitches to have a litter and sell these for much less than the current pedigree prices. Or just to find good homes for the pups for free.

The breeder that I got my bitch from is a professional who has started to outcross rough collies in order to improve their physiology and health statistics. She's created a 'new' crossbreed called the 'tofty sheepdog'. They look a lot like rough collies but with much shorter easy keep coats, the dogs are more athletic but retain their family friendly laid back 'lassie' vibes. Mine is an angel and perfect for our family.

When I got my bitch the breeder encouraged me to keep her intact in case I should want to breed her as she was a very good example of a tofty. She has done extensive health testing on all of her dogs and would be able to match me with a suitable tofty male or back to a Welsh sheepdog.

I am torn though, as lots of folks that I know (and lots of folks on mumsnet) think that breeding a dog is irrisponsible due to all of the dogs needing homes in shelters. My main motivation would be that I think there should be more tofty's in the world and that they're a good alternative to labradors/cockapoos/more common breeds. They're rare and have not yet taken off - but could be popular if more folk knew about them.

Rough collies are becoming very rare and are now classed at 'at risk' by the kennel club. I do not think that continuing to breed from a closed register would be good for the breeds health statistics - so I'm fully behind the tofty ethos.

Am I being unreasonable?

You are so naive OP

Nobody thinks you a monster if you take notice of the majority opinion on this thread. I sincerley hope you haven't already made up your mind to have the litter anyway.

Please put your efforts into supporting Rough Collies not creating cross breeds.

Giving the benefit of the doubt the original breeder who wants to improve Rough Collies - there are ways of doing this, creating a cross breed and encouraging people they sell their puppies to to do the same thing is not the right way.

Anyone who breeds dogs without a bloody good reason in the current financial climate whilst so many unwanted pets languish in shelters should be put in stocks and have bags of dog shit throw at them.

puppy farmers by definition are very different from what OP is talking about, you’re all being a bit crazy surely!!

If it's the breeder I am thinking of, I had one of her welshe sheepdog pups earlier in the year.

I do not believe she is doing this for money, she extensively testes our puppy, on fact o believe she did the whole litter.

She is trying to bring back the rough collie of old, like the one my family had in the 80s.

I would have one of her toftys over a rough collie in a heart beat.

Puppy farmers range from "commercial" operations with multiple dogs and multiple litters to people breeder designer dogs from their single owned sire or dam, to people breeding pedigree dogs without health tests etc. There is no one definition of what constitutes a puppy farmer.

Most people on this thread can see it except the OP. She's obviously hell bent. How fucking irresponsible can someone be in this enlightened day and age. It's as if she's posting from the 1970's.

Go on OP, good on ya. Bring more dogs into the world.

But the person breeding has not got their dogs best interests at heart, as the op states. If that was the case, you wouldn't breed your dog.

Breeders aren't going anywhere. But people encouraging someone to have a litter of pups from their pet when there are so many breeders out there already, and or sat in rescues, is the 'crazy thing. Not those trying to discourage it

I don’t think there’s a shortage of people breeding dogs for people that can’t or won’t use rescues, which seems to be your main argument, you are not fulfilling a need, just adding to a problem.

Surely most of you know that bitches do enjoy having puppies - why would an owner who breeds not have their best interest at heart. Puppy farms are the opposite, the mum is taken away and conditions are harsh. I don’t feel that the Op is being unreasonable

Yes likely the same breeder!

Folk are insisting that there's enough dogs that are easy keep family friendly good with other pets/strangers/other dogs etc already. I couldn't find a mix like this in a rescue when I was looking so thought there was a need for more. I know that training plays its part in that too but rough collies are renowned for these traits. I just didn't want the work of the huge floofy coat.

People everywhere are having to give up their pets due to COL crisis. I think this is highly irresponsible OP, to bring more dogs into the world for no genuinely good reason. Just forget it, please!

When we were looking we had a 1y0 and a 3yo, chickens, 3 cats and (rightly) no rescue would entertain us.

Just posting to say it’s such a shame that the attitude of the more-famous rescue charities (Battersea, Dogs Trust and the like) puts people off rescues altogether. We looked for a rescue dog when our children were 1 and 3, same as you. We looked smaller, breed-specific rescues. We went through the checks and with a couple of weeks we were approved by the following UK rescues:

• MuffinPug (now called PugLife)
• Buddy’s Boxer Rescue
• Greys - finding homes for hounds

We went with a greyhound from Greys in the end. Amazing process, easy from start to finish, totally free.

I hope this encourages some people with small children to try a bit harder to get a rescue. There are tons and tons of smaller rescue charities. Googling for five minutes and saying “oh we can’t get a rescue so we HAD to get a backyard-bred puppy” is ethically not good enough tbh.

@schloss , I think there is a definition actually

🙄

Have you asked them ?

Apart from any of the other points people have already raised have you considered the financial implication of breeding a bitch?
What if she can’t whelp naturally? What if you need to visit an out of hours Vet? The cost of a c-section out of hours including X-rays/ultrasound and after care can quickly reach into the thousands.
Also you are breeding a beloved pet. Consider how you would feel if she had pregnancy complications that are totally preventable by just not breeding from her.
Then you have the cost of raising the pups and making sure they are all microchipped and also a responsible breeder would usually start them off at least with their first vaccination, flea and worm treatment and send them off to their new home with a small bag of the food that they have been weaned onto. All costs money.
Having said all that I’d rather a cross of a rough collie than another brachy cross. Humans have done some incredibly dreadful things in the past few years with the sorts of inbreeding that has lead to multiple health issues for our canine friends.
You sound like the sort of person that would do lots of research beforehand and not just breed your bitch on a whim so give it some serious thought before you make a decision.

My sentiments entirely.

I'm glad you found your rescue.

I had the added complication of 3 cats and free range hens. I was told no at every turn!

Nobody has said the OP is a puppy farm , we’ve said she’s a byb - which she is

oh don’t be so silly of course I haven’t ; but i have known a few breeders in my time and the bitches always get a bit jealous if another one has some puppies!

So they love having the puppies, then what? The puppies are taken away by the people who buy them, aren't they?

I'm certainly not considering becoming a puppy farm!

I used the term back yard breeder very literally.

Maybe they want their previous pups which have been taken from them and given away back?

You'll never know. You're not a dog. But if you breed you are putting your dog through a completely unnecessary risk. For money.

I went and visited four or five rescues, none of them would give me a dog as we had cats. It isn’t that easy to adopt if you have specific circumstances, which seems to be going over the top and preventing some good adoptions taking place.