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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Calling all men

148 replies

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 16:49

Is it unreasonable to share the following, specifically addressed to men and crossposted on a number of cycling forums, on a site largely populated by women, because I want their opinions as well?

On my ride yesterday I passed a woman by the side of the road. It happens. They are, after all, half the human race.

She'd been running. No matter, I'll talk to anyone if the opportunity presents itself: even non-cyclists.

I said this: "The roads around here." My full meaning, from one road user to another, was along the lines of "The roads sure are terrible, aren't they?", the context being the appalling stretch of tarmac I had just picked a careful line through.

She looked up, uncertain why I was talking to her. I noticed she appeared to be wearing headphones. She was also a bit younger than I'd first thought, maybe late teens or early 20s. She said "Pardon?"

I don't remember exactly how I replied, only that I hadn't meant to alarm her. She sort of smiled and that was that.

Except that wasn't that. I immediately mentally kicked myself for having disturbed her, on whatever level. That half smile could have meant anything from "You're so right, the bloody council, what are they like?" to "[Smile placates strange man.]"

It's normally fine to chat to people, half the human race included, on these chance encounters. But it's easy to forget, particularly when you're a man, that you should choose your moments carefully.

Example 1: Woman walking dog. Say "Hello!" to announce myself as a passing cyclist (I don't favour bells for this purpose: a little too pushy, despite the seemingly cheery Ring-ring!) A Hello! is always appreciated, judging by how often I'm thanked. The sex of the person never comes into it, other than perhaps a split second as they quickly grok the situation.

Example 2: The scenario presented above. It's unclear why this stranger is suddenly talking to you. While it can be cleared up quickly, it can just as quickly get awkward. Chalk up what they call a teachable moment in a lifetime of them. Every day is school day.

From The Guardian a few years ago:
Men must learn how to make women feel safe while exercising
It is unbelievable that Chris Boardman’s words can be so basic and obvious to female athletes and yet still so needed by men (Calling all men: this is what we can do to help women feel safe exercising in the dark, 30 October). Exercising solo, especially at night, is often a different experience for the two. One day last year I was cycling along the (very wide) Forth and Clyde canal; my fitness was great and I had a fine tailwind. I passed a man who had been dawdling, when suddenly he sped up and started slipstreaming me, within a couple of feet. This was in broad daylight, but the canal was empty.

I was worried in case he was somehow angered by me passing him, so I kept going for around 5km, after which my panic was really starting to interfere aerobically. I signalled that I was going to stop as he was so close to me, sat down on a bench and pulled out some food. He stopped too. “Thanks. I needed that,” he said, before asking me about the rest of my cycle. I refused to engage as I was recovering from the shock. A perfect example of how some men have no idea how intimidating their actions can be to women.

I'm not some knight in shining armour on a mission to protect all womenkind. I'm just a guy offering advice to other guys who may not have given this stuff much thought before.

Men must learn how to make women feel safe while exercising | Letters

Letters: Dr Kathy Dodworth says some men have no idea how intimidating their actions can be. Plus letters from Alison Chubb, David Winter, Frank Paice and Keith Irish

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/04/men-must-learn-how-to-make-women-feel-safe-while-exercising

OP posts:
brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 22/02/2024 16:57

I wouldn’t engage with a woman (or a man for that matter) out doing sports any further than a nod or wave if they’re coming in the opposite direction. If I am passing them I do it when it’s safe to do so and do it decisively - keep going faster after passing to create space. Will not speak to someone if approaching them from behind unless it’s a tricky narrow pass and I want to be clear which side I am about to appear on - “just coming past on your right” or something, that’s it. And if someone passes me I certainly will not start chasing them, because I’m doing my thing at my pace and I’m not playing games with other people.

Hardlyworking · 22/02/2024 17:11

Maybe take your essay back to reddit?

ChanelNo19EDT · 22/02/2024 17:17

I thought this was going to be about Bobbi Althick, just two minutes ago I read about a ......i don't know what to call it, revenge style porn, but AI and the comments from all the men underneath, they all found it FUNNY. OMG, men. it's like they're hardly human some of them, they snuck on to earth.

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 17:31

Hardlyworking · 22/02/2024 17:11

Maybe take your essay back to reddit?

The more eyeballs the better, but I can't stand reddit.

OP posts:
Hagbard · 22/02/2024 17:31

Also men - please do ding your bike bell if coming up behind someone. It's not pushy and is helpful to pedestrians (who are constantly leaping out of the way for runners too)

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 18:27

Hagbard · 22/02/2024 17:31

Also men - please do ding your bike bell if coming up behind someone. It's not pushy and is helpful to pedestrians (who are constantly leaping out of the way for runners too)

I asked for opinions and am happy to get them, so thanks. And I can see how in some circumstances a bell can be less threatening, sadly. A small gallery of people I've met on the road thanks to the humble hello:

https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=438.msg18606#msg18606

Velosolo Club

Velosolo Club

https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=438.msg18606#msg18606

OP posts:
ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 22/02/2024 18:42

On the Bell vs Hello matter. I cycle and also walk, and I'm firmly team Bell. A bell carries further than a gruff hello. Ding it in enough time, ensure the pedestrians have heard, slow down to pass, job done.
As a pedestrian, I don't want to have to wait several seconds for you to reach your punch line, ie 'Hello, coming through on the' followed by 'right' or 'left'. So if you say 'right' my brain has to translate that to the opposite, ie tell my body to move to the LEFT. If I hesitate, or go RIGHT (which is the last word I heard), then you and I might collide.
Just ring your damn bell, I'll look round and move out of your way. I may not be able to hear your words clearly, I almost certainly won't be familiar with your voice, English may not be my first language, you may be speaking more quietly than you think, you may be upon me before you have made it clear that I have heard and understood.
I'll get off my high horse now, LOL.

TeabySea · 22/02/2024 18:50

Also team bell. If you're cycling along behind me I can't see you and, depending on the terrain and your bike, might not hear you.

As for random conversation-making perhaps a recheck of the situation. If someone was waiting at a bus stop for a while at the same time I was, then yes, I'd probably chat briefly.
However, just passing someone by, no.

LordBummenbachsMagnificentBalls · 22/02/2024 18:53

Female dog walker agreeing that a bell is far preferred, simply because I hear a bell and think “bike” then keep left, whereas if you shout hello I don’t necessarily think bike straight away and wont think to keep my dog to one side quickly enough

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 18:55

I don't warn people of my approach as a way of telling them to get out of the way: pedestrians have priority. I took to saying hello (which I personally think is almost universally understood) so as not to startle them, and usually their dog or horse. Which is why I get so many genuine smiles.

A hello is also an invitation to a possible conversation, and I ride, in part, to exercise my skills as a social animal. My OP was about fine-tuning these where necessary.

Last but not least, I'm a writer. People are my stock-in-trade.

As for high horses:
https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=2562.msg12368#msg12368

Calling all men
OP posts:
LordBummenbachsMagnificentBalls · 22/02/2024 19:01

Appreciate your concern for pedestrians but my dog will clothesline you with his lead if I don’t clock you fast enough!

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:02

LordBummenbachsMagnificentBalls · 22/02/2024 19:01

Appreciate your concern for pedestrians but my dog will clothesline you with his lead if I don’t clock you fast enough!

I always take it slow and easy around dogs, the cyclist's natural enemy, alas.

Basically my approach is about being human, rather than another contraption.

OP posts:
LaLoba · 22/02/2024 19:09

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 18:27

I asked for opinions and am happy to get them, so thanks. And I can see how in some circumstances a bell can be less threatening, sadly. A small gallery of people I've met on the road thanks to the humble hello:

https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=438.msg18606#msg18606

I prefer a verbal approach to the bell - I’m making sure I don’t startle people and their dogs, and the bell feels sort of like a demand to move aside. I think people are just happy if I’m polite, so bell or hello probably doesn’t really matter.
As a cyclist and runner, it’s good to see this message getting out. When I see my running friends out we don’t pause our runs to chat, so I’m not stopping for a random bloke!

ADoggyDogWorld · 22/02/2024 19:15

Please don't talk to a runner running. You'll be interrupting breathing and pace/stride. A hello or a ding ding, fine. Wanting to engage in conversation, no.

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:16

ADoggyDogWorld · 22/02/2024 19:15

Please don't talk to a runner running. You'll be interrupting breathing and pace/stride. A hello or a ding ding, fine. Wanting to engage in conversation, no.

Yes; I know a thing or two about being out of breath.

OP posts:
5128gap · 22/02/2024 19:22

Say hello to alert people to your presence if its necessary. Excercise your skills as a social animal by making small talk with the other men you encounter. Jobs a good un.

cookingwithabigail · 22/02/2024 19:27

I think a bell is fine then at least I'd know it was a bike coming through.

Men don't realise that many women have been predated most of our lives and are rightfully cautious and wary. We're not worried about young children, other women or elderly people, but men are a different kettle of fish. Do men worry about being set upon by other men? I suppose they don't have to worry about sexual assault or kidnapping. I know men get robbed and attacked though - by other men of course, so presumably men do know what their fellow sex are like.

Screamingabdabz · 22/02/2024 19:28

Funny how I never get men talking to me when I’m out and about. But I’m middle aged and fat and therefore completely invisible.

It’s only young fit women they’re interested in ‘chatting’ or giving their male wisdom to. Funny that.

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:29

5128gap · 22/02/2024 19:22

Say hello to alert people to your presence if its necessary. Excercise your skills as a social animal by making small talk with the other men you encounter. Jobs a good un.

With respect, I can think of few things more likely to bore me than small talk with other men. But I take the point (as I would, having written the OP) that spur of the moment talk with women is a trickier thing.

Of course you have only my word on this, but in 20+ years of cycling in my neck of the woods (though granted far less of that chatting away - I'm a late blooming extrovert), I can count the number of uncomfortable encounters on... 1 finger.

OP posts:
Cheesyfootballs01 · 22/02/2024 19:32

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:29

With respect, I can think of few things more likely to bore me than small talk with other men. But I take the point (as I would, having written the OP) that spur of the moment talk with women is a trickier thing.

Of course you have only my word on this, but in 20+ years of cycling in my neck of the woods (though granted far less of that chatting away - I'm a late blooming extrovert), I can count the number of uncomfortable encounters on... 1 finger.

Why would talking to men bore you?

Why would you rather speak to women?

It would help to know your age ( and it is relevant)

innerdesign · 22/02/2024 19:34

@CyclingSam A hello is also an invitation to a possible conversation, and I ride, in part, to exercise my skills as a social animal.

This will almost definitely come as a surprise to you, but women are not on this earth for your entertainment! It's not all about you. She's jogging with her headphones in - you can be 100% sure she was not interested in your social skills.

Yuk. I know NAMALT but Jesus. It's a lot of them, eh?

Springsombrero · 22/02/2024 19:37

LaLoba · 22/02/2024 19:09

I prefer a verbal approach to the bell - I’m making sure I don’t startle people and their dogs, and the bell feels sort of like a demand to move aside. I think people are just happy if I’m polite, so bell or hello probably doesn’t really matter.
As a cyclist and runner, it’s good to see this message getting out. When I see my running friends out we don’t pause our runs to chat, so I’m not stopping for a random bloke!

Ditto, I’m not a fan of the bell when I’m out walking - usually someone approaching pretty rapidly and unwilling to slow down much, demanding you to step aside. When I’m cycling I generally prefer to slow right down and say excuse me.

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:38

Cheesyfootballs01 · 22/02/2024 19:32

Why would talking to men bore you?

Why would you rather speak to women?

It would help to know your age ( and it is relevant)

It was the way you said it – "Small talk with other men." Just sounded kind of provincial, I guess. I talk to men most of the time, as it's mostly men on the road.

I'm well into the age of majority, a 70s child (women aren't the only ones who aren't keen on disclosing their exact age), and quite happily married.

OP posts:
CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:39

innerdesign · 22/02/2024 19:34

@CyclingSam A hello is also an invitation to a possible conversation, and I ride, in part, to exercise my skills as a social animal.

This will almost definitely come as a surprise to you, but women are not on this earth for your entertainment! It's not all about you. She's jogging with her headphones in - you can be 100% sure she was not interested in your social skills.

Yuk. I know NAMALT but Jesus. It's a lot of them, eh?

It's not at all a surprise to me. Incorrect assumptions seldom are.

OP posts:
5128gap · 22/02/2024 19:41

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:29

With respect, I can think of few things more likely to bore me than small talk with other men. But I take the point (as I would, having written the OP) that spur of the moment talk with women is a trickier thing.

Of course you have only my word on this, but in 20+ years of cycling in my neck of the woods (though granted far less of that chatting away - I'm a late blooming extrovert), I can count the number of uncomfortable encounters on... 1 finger.

I see. So you only want suggestions on how not to make women feel uncomfortable or unsafe that still allow for the possibility for you to be entertained by them? It's also amusing that you recognise that men's small talk is boring, yet still want to inflict that on women yourself!