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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Calling all men

148 replies

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 16:49

Is it unreasonable to share the following, specifically addressed to men and crossposted on a number of cycling forums, on a site largely populated by women, because I want their opinions as well?

On my ride yesterday I passed a woman by the side of the road. It happens. They are, after all, half the human race.

She'd been running. No matter, I'll talk to anyone if the opportunity presents itself: even non-cyclists.

I said this: "The roads around here." My full meaning, from one road user to another, was along the lines of "The roads sure are terrible, aren't they?", the context being the appalling stretch of tarmac I had just picked a careful line through.

She looked up, uncertain why I was talking to her. I noticed she appeared to be wearing headphones. She was also a bit younger than I'd first thought, maybe late teens or early 20s. She said "Pardon?"

I don't remember exactly how I replied, only that I hadn't meant to alarm her. She sort of smiled and that was that.

Except that wasn't that. I immediately mentally kicked myself for having disturbed her, on whatever level. That half smile could have meant anything from "You're so right, the bloody council, what are they like?" to "[Smile placates strange man.]"

It's normally fine to chat to people, half the human race included, on these chance encounters. But it's easy to forget, particularly when you're a man, that you should choose your moments carefully.

Example 1: Woman walking dog. Say "Hello!" to announce myself as a passing cyclist (I don't favour bells for this purpose: a little too pushy, despite the seemingly cheery Ring-ring!) A Hello! is always appreciated, judging by how often I'm thanked. The sex of the person never comes into it, other than perhaps a split second as they quickly grok the situation.

Example 2: The scenario presented above. It's unclear why this stranger is suddenly talking to you. While it can be cleared up quickly, it can just as quickly get awkward. Chalk up what they call a teachable moment in a lifetime of them. Every day is school day.

From The Guardian a few years ago:
Men must learn how to make women feel safe while exercising
It is unbelievable that Chris Boardman’s words can be so basic and obvious to female athletes and yet still so needed by men (Calling all men: this is what we can do to help women feel safe exercising in the dark, 30 October). Exercising solo, especially at night, is often a different experience for the two. One day last year I was cycling along the (very wide) Forth and Clyde canal; my fitness was great and I had a fine tailwind. I passed a man who had been dawdling, when suddenly he sped up and started slipstreaming me, within a couple of feet. This was in broad daylight, but the canal was empty.

I was worried in case he was somehow angered by me passing him, so I kept going for around 5km, after which my panic was really starting to interfere aerobically. I signalled that I was going to stop as he was so close to me, sat down on a bench and pulled out some food. He stopped too. “Thanks. I needed that,” he said, before asking me about the rest of my cycle. I refused to engage as I was recovering from the shock. A perfect example of how some men have no idea how intimidating their actions can be to women.

I'm not some knight in shining armour on a mission to protect all womenkind. I'm just a guy offering advice to other guys who may not have given this stuff much thought before.

Men must learn how to make women feel safe while exercising | Letters

Letters: Dr Kathy Dodworth says some men have no idea how intimidating their actions can be. Plus letters from Alison Chubb, David Winter, Frank Paice and Keith Irish

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/04/men-must-learn-how-to-make-women-feel-safe-while-exercising

OP posts:
Catsmere · 23/02/2024 01:39

Just ring your bell, keep going and leave us alone. We’re not your mobile entertainment units. If you must speak, call out “Passing!” rather than “Hello”. That’s all the information needed.

ProfessionalBuilding · 23/02/2024 03:04

This might be one of the most embarrassing threads I’ve seen on Mumsnet.

CyclingSam · 23/02/2024 03:20

I stopped reading after my last reply. When people are obviously misconstruing what I say, or reading it with the sole aim of twisting it around, and simply making stuff up, there's no point in my continuing. Life is too short.

In the event anyone has said anything sensible after I left, thank you, and sorry I didn't get a chance to read it. To the rest of you, have fun talking to yourselves (and bumping the thread). Enjoy your pile on.

OP posts:
CatrionaCat · 23/02/2024 03:28

ODFOD

ICrunchCrispsNotNumbers · 23/02/2024 04:30

Chumbawambs · 23/02/2024 00:01

@CyclingSam As a father and a man, I guess your post was directed at me. All I can say is I stopped reading halfway through you sound like a prat. You also sound like a creep, please stay well away from all women, my DD and DW.

You are no friend to women, please get on your tricycle keep peddling and stay well away from lone women. They are not there to keep you company or hone your social skills, you have none.

@Chumbawambs 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 04:34

CyclingSam · 23/02/2024 03:20

I stopped reading after my last reply. When people are obviously misconstruing what I say, or reading it with the sole aim of twisting it around, and simply making stuff up, there's no point in my continuing. Life is too short.

In the event anyone has said anything sensible after I left, thank you, and sorry I didn't get a chance to read it. To the rest of you, have fun talking to yourselves (and bumping the thread). Enjoy your pile on.

No, we just think you're a plonker. HTH.

SoundTheSirens · 23/02/2024 04:58

Poor bruised male ego. “The nasty wimminz didn’t swoon at my pearls of wisdom and tell me how wonderful and considerate I am so I’m stropping off.”

Hands up who thinks the OP might take on board the majority feedback he got to just leave women alone, no matter how young and pretty they may be. Anyone? Anyone? No one? Surely you can’t be thinking that he’s going to dismiss us all as bitter women and carry on inserting himself into strange women’s days whenever the fancy takes him?

SoundTheSirens · 23/02/2024 05:02

Oh and btw, I’ve been a regular on the FWR board for years. No way that bloviating mansplainer is on there as an ally; just as on this thread the women there can spot a wannabe white knight at 200 paces and would have eviscerated him at his first post.

Newnamehiwhodis · 23/02/2024 05:12

Yes, you could actually be a feminist. Men can be feminists. Just stop telling everyone how much you know, and go read something. Go read and listen about it.

and also: small talk with men bores you? Then why are you talking with (young) women? Why is that any different?

Any answer you give here is just going to be awful, basically. fuck off.

Newnamehiwhodis · 23/02/2024 05:13

twat

Mummyoflittledragon · 23/02/2024 05:16

Hmmm, how to sum this up, I really like the sound of my own voice, perhaps?

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 05:25

I particularly liked the 'in the event anyone has said anything sensible ' remark. Like some old boarding school housemaster from 70 years ago. Charming.

JohnSt1 · 23/02/2024 05:42

There's a very common online personality that I associate with "men of a certain age". They have to be right, and will kindly mansplain why everyone else on a forum is wrong. This usually happens within a day of discovering the Wikipedia article that makes them an expert. They eventually sulk and leave.

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 05:46

JohnSt1 · 23/02/2024 05:42

There's a very common online personality that I associate with "men of a certain age". They have to be right, and will kindly mansplain why everyone else on a forum is wrong. This usually happens within a day of discovering the Wikipedia article that makes them an expert. They eventually sulk and leave.

At least they sulked and left quickly!

JacquesHarlow · 23/02/2024 05:48

CyclingSam · 23/02/2024 03:20

I stopped reading after my last reply. When people are obviously misconstruing what I say, or reading it with the sole aim of twisting it around, and simply making stuff up, there's no point in my continuing. Life is too short.

In the event anyone has said anything sensible after I left, thank you, and sorry I didn't get a chance to read it. To the rest of you, have fun talking to yourselves (and bumping the thread). Enjoy your pile on.

“In the event anyone has said anything sensible after I left”

Ok. So you say you are a writer, @CyclingSam , and that people are , I quote , “my stock in trade”.

Yet despite all that performative observation of people, and you can’t see the superciliousness in your own tone - and how this is the problem that has caused all the reactions on here,

the sentence I highlighted in bold? It is the only sentence you need to analyse

Above all, why do you need advice from women to continue to impose your literary, feminist-ally self on women?

Maybe none of us want to hear from you, ever, when we are going about our day and trying to avoid contact with strangers. Perhaps we would like to go about our days walking without having to have a forced conversation with a self-styled man of “elegant words” who is just waiting for praise and acceptance from us women.

I don’t think you’ll ever get it, because you feel we must all interact with you somehow, but I had a go above to try and help.

Catsmere · 23/02/2024 06:23

He says he's a writer. That doesn't mean he's a good one.

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 06:25

Catsmere · 23/02/2024 06:23

He says he's a writer. That doesn't mean he's a good one.

Amen to that!

Catsmere · 23/02/2024 06:31

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 06:25

Amen to that!

🙏 😂

Newnamehiwhodis · 23/02/2024 06:40

Ironically, he doesn’t seem to have read the article he was grandstanding and poncing all over the stage about.

it is a brief thing which mainly exists to point to another article in which one of the salient points is: DON’T TALK TO WOMEN, IT MAKES THEM UNCOMFORTABLE

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/30/women-safe-exercise-in-the-dark

… what an absolute muppet

Calling all men: this is what we can do to help women feel safe exercising in the dark | Chris Boardman

We have to break the cycle of misogyny that makes women feel at risk: This Girl Can’s guide sets out steps you can take, says Chris Boardman of Sport England

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/30/women-safe-exercise-in-the-dark

Untilitisnt · 23/02/2024 06:43

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 22/02/2024 18:42

On the Bell vs Hello matter. I cycle and also walk, and I'm firmly team Bell. A bell carries further than a gruff hello. Ding it in enough time, ensure the pedestrians have heard, slow down to pass, job done.
As a pedestrian, I don't want to have to wait several seconds for you to reach your punch line, ie 'Hello, coming through on the' followed by 'right' or 'left'. So if you say 'right' my brain has to translate that to the opposite, ie tell my body to move to the LEFT. If I hesitate, or go RIGHT (which is the last word I heard), then you and I might collide.
Just ring your damn bell, I'll look round and move out of your way. I may not be able to hear your words clearly, I almost certainly won't be familiar with your voice, English may not be my first language, you may be speaking more quietly than you think, you may be upon me before you have made it clear that I have heard and understood.
I'll get off my high horse now, LOL.

This x100 🖕
To most bloody cyclists. Especially on tow paths. Especially along the Lea
You are not Sir Chris
You are not Laura Trott
You are, on the whole, expecting the world to move aside for your lycra-clad determination never to veer from your line.
So @CyclingSam , apologies for hijacking your thoughful post. Please use the bell.

PS. I know there are some considerate cyclist out there and that I am generalising 😀

sashh · 23/02/2024 06:43

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:53

Perhaps all I can say at this point is, please reread the OP. It was written for men, to bring this issue to their awareness. I'm quite aware of it already.

Your replies show that you don't.

TealSapphire · 23/02/2024 06:45

Yeah OP no one wants you to talk at them when they're out minding their own business.

I doubt you'll stop though.

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 06:46

sashh · 23/02/2024 06:43

Your replies show that you don't.

I think it's some sort of pisstaker tbh. Nobody could be that lacking in self awareness surely?

JacquesHarlow · 23/02/2024 06:59

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 06:46

I think it's some sort of pisstaker tbh. Nobody could be that lacking in self awareness surely?

I would normally agree with you that nobody would lack that kind of self-awareness

Yet I’ve met so many men like this OP, who think that because they hold all the “right views” this allows them to verbally invade women’s space in person, and here, and wherever.

JacquesHarlow · 23/02/2024 06:59

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 06:46

I think it's some sort of pisstaker tbh. Nobody could be that lacking in self awareness surely?

I would normally agree with you that nobody would lack that kind of self-awareness

Yet I’ve met so many men like this OP, who think that because they hold all the “right views” this allows them to verbally invade women’s space in person, and here, and wherever.