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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Calling all men

148 replies

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 16:49

Is it unreasonable to share the following, specifically addressed to men and crossposted on a number of cycling forums, on a site largely populated by women, because I want their opinions as well?

On my ride yesterday I passed a woman by the side of the road. It happens. They are, after all, half the human race.

She'd been running. No matter, I'll talk to anyone if the opportunity presents itself: even non-cyclists.

I said this: "The roads around here." My full meaning, from one road user to another, was along the lines of "The roads sure are terrible, aren't they?", the context being the appalling stretch of tarmac I had just picked a careful line through.

She looked up, uncertain why I was talking to her. I noticed she appeared to be wearing headphones. She was also a bit younger than I'd first thought, maybe late teens or early 20s. She said "Pardon?"

I don't remember exactly how I replied, only that I hadn't meant to alarm her. She sort of smiled and that was that.

Except that wasn't that. I immediately mentally kicked myself for having disturbed her, on whatever level. That half smile could have meant anything from "You're so right, the bloody council, what are they like?" to "[Smile placates strange man.]"

It's normally fine to chat to people, half the human race included, on these chance encounters. But it's easy to forget, particularly when you're a man, that you should choose your moments carefully.

Example 1: Woman walking dog. Say "Hello!" to announce myself as a passing cyclist (I don't favour bells for this purpose: a little too pushy, despite the seemingly cheery Ring-ring!) A Hello! is always appreciated, judging by how often I'm thanked. The sex of the person never comes into it, other than perhaps a split second as they quickly grok the situation.

Example 2: The scenario presented above. It's unclear why this stranger is suddenly talking to you. While it can be cleared up quickly, it can just as quickly get awkward. Chalk up what they call a teachable moment in a lifetime of them. Every day is school day.

From The Guardian a few years ago:
Men must learn how to make women feel safe while exercising
It is unbelievable that Chris Boardman’s words can be so basic and obvious to female athletes and yet still so needed by men (Calling all men: this is what we can do to help women feel safe exercising in the dark, 30 October). Exercising solo, especially at night, is often a different experience for the two. One day last year I was cycling along the (very wide) Forth and Clyde canal; my fitness was great and I had a fine tailwind. I passed a man who had been dawdling, when suddenly he sped up and started slipstreaming me, within a couple of feet. This was in broad daylight, but the canal was empty.

I was worried in case he was somehow angered by me passing him, so I kept going for around 5km, after which my panic was really starting to interfere aerobically. I signalled that I was going to stop as he was so close to me, sat down on a bench and pulled out some food. He stopped too. “Thanks. I needed that,” he said, before asking me about the rest of my cycle. I refused to engage as I was recovering from the shock. A perfect example of how some men have no idea how intimidating their actions can be to women.

I'm not some knight in shining armour on a mission to protect all womenkind. I'm just a guy offering advice to other guys who may not have given this stuff much thought before.

Men must learn how to make women feel safe while exercising | Letters

Letters: Dr Kathy Dodworth says some men have no idea how intimidating their actions can be. Plus letters from Alison Chubb, David Winter, Frank Paice and Keith Irish

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/04/men-must-learn-how-to-make-women-feel-safe-while-exercising

OP posts:
warmheartcoldfeet · 23/02/2024 11:15

JacquesHarlow · 23/02/2024 09:44

I wonder if @CyclingSam will come back to this thread and read the lived experience of women who don’t want to be spoken to at random in public by a man, however well meaning he claims he is.

He did return, briefly at 3.20am, so say that everyone was 'making stuff up' and piling on and that he wasn't going to read anymore.

So much for gathering insights into his method. Only wants to hear from people who agree with him clearly.

Gaslighting, minimising and purposeful ignorance. I hope his wife isn't subject to this behaviour.

cookingwithabigail · 23/02/2024 18:40

They're in a world of their own aren't they? 🙄 Even when things are spelled out for them they still deny it and act butthurt. Then they wonder why we divorce them. It's almost as though we're sentient, intelligent, nuanced, thinking beings with opinions of our own as opposed to domestic animals.

Gloriosaford · 23/02/2024 18:56

My impression is that the OP had written a post that he believed to be clever/witty and was miffed that it didnt get the reception he thought it deserved.

Catsmere · 23/02/2024 20:28

Gloriosaford · 23/02/2024 18:56

My impression is that the OP had written a post that he believed to be clever/witty and was miffed that it didnt get the reception he thought it deserved.

I bet when he said “I’m a writer” he left out “unpublished”, because it’s easy to imagine his reaction to being told to fix anything by an editor if they’re a womanthing!

Gloriosaford · 23/02/2024 21:18

Catsmere · 23/02/2024 20:28

I bet when he said “I’m a writer” he left out “unpublished”, because it’s easy to imagine his reaction to being told to fix anything by an editor if they’re a womanthing!

Oh I missed the bit about him being a writer!
(dont give up the day job will you mate!)

PedestrianPete · 23/02/2024 22:41

Another man here, but I’m actually reading the replies.

I don’t cycle or jog but do go for walks.

If I encounter a lone female walker, coming from the other direction, I’ll move to the other side of the path, maintain my pace and usually give a fleeting smile, nod or ‘hello’. I try to avoid giving the impression that I want to communicate beyond that.

I’m conscious, though, that the guardian article seems to advocate silence. What’s generally preferred, no acknowledgment or a very fleeting one from as respectful a distance as possible?

Justifiedcheese · 23/02/2024 22:50

Hagbard · 22/02/2024 17:31

Also men - please do ding your bike bell if coming up behind someone. It's not pushy and is helpful to pedestrians (who are constantly leaping out of the way for runners too)

ALL cyclists.

Justifiedcheese · 23/02/2024 22:51

PedestrianPete · 23/02/2024 22:41

Another man here, but I’m actually reading the replies.

I don’t cycle or jog but do go for walks.

If I encounter a lone female walker, coming from the other direction, I’ll move to the other side of the path, maintain my pace and usually give a fleeting smile, nod or ‘hello’. I try to avoid giving the impression that I want to communicate beyond that.

I’m conscious, though, that the guardian article seems to advocate silence. What’s generally preferred, no acknowledgment or a very fleeting one from as respectful a distance as possible?

" good morning" or " good afternoon" works fine afaiac. That's what you'll get ( no more) from me, after all.

innerdesign · 23/02/2024 23:05

PedestrianPete · 23/02/2024 22:41

Another man here, but I’m actually reading the replies.

I don’t cycle or jog but do go for walks.

If I encounter a lone female walker, coming from the other direction, I’ll move to the other side of the path, maintain my pace and usually give a fleeting smile, nod or ‘hello’. I try to avoid giving the impression that I want to communicate beyond that.

I’m conscious, though, that the guardian article seems to advocate silence. What’s generally preferred, no acknowledgment or a very fleeting one from as respectful a distance as possible?

Depends on the situation I think. Daytime on a country lane, I wouldn't mind a polite hello (although personally would prefer not to bother, unless we both had dogs with us which seems to make me more sociable). In the city in darkness, 100% ignore.

Olivegardenishome · 23/02/2024 23:05

Well this thread is full of surprises. I haven’t slept in 45 hours, is this summary correct?

  • a man in his 40’s/50’s, on his bike, trying to start conversations with lone teenage women, not thinking his behaviour is remotely creepy, wrote a long post “to men” advising them how to conduct themselves around women.
  • man thinking women exist for him to practice his social skills on because he finds small talk with men boring. Never mind the fact women find it boring too but he’s going to inflict himself on them regardless.
  • a man mansplaining women’s perceived safety to a predominantly women’s website.
  • a man needing his ego stroked by letting other men know how not to be creepy, when in reality it’s only really a very few men who are this creepy, and op is one of them. Other men responded and sound like they could teach OP.
  • Man disguising himself as white knight and rescuer to women against creepy men. Like himself.
  • grown man tantrum when women (and men) saw through the BS and called him out on his behaviour. OP left conversation as nobody had anything sensible to add (read as, didn’t rub his ego like he intended)

but the biggest surprise for me is that this fucking boring drivel written by OP that was borderline painful to read because it was just so fucking mind numbingly boring, was written by a ‘writer’ 😂 I kid you not. I think I’m going delirious now through tiredness to be finding this equally amusing and strange, sorry if this post is not coherent!

Gloriosaford · 23/02/2024 23:09

PedestrianPete · 23/02/2024 22:41

Another man here, but I’m actually reading the replies.

I don’t cycle or jog but do go for walks.

If I encounter a lone female walker, coming from the other direction, I’ll move to the other side of the path, maintain my pace and usually give a fleeting smile, nod or ‘hello’. I try to avoid giving the impression that I want to communicate beyond that.

I’m conscious, though, that the guardian article seems to advocate silence. What’s generally preferred, no acknowledgment or a very fleeting one from as respectful a distance as possible?

I'm trying to think, brief nod and a positive benign expression should be enough?
I'm also quite careful with men who are younger than me in case they think I'm being a creepy. For instance if I needed someone to help me with something in the gym I'd avoid asking a young bloke in case he thought I was trying to chat him up and that would be weird and uncomfortable for him.

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 23:11

PedestrianPete · 23/02/2024 22:41

Another man here, but I’m actually reading the replies.

I don’t cycle or jog but do go for walks.

If I encounter a lone female walker, coming from the other direction, I’ll move to the other side of the path, maintain my pace and usually give a fleeting smile, nod or ‘hello’. I try to avoid giving the impression that I want to communicate beyond that.

I’m conscious, though, that the guardian article seems to advocate silence. What’s generally preferred, no acknowledgment or a very fleeting one from as respectful a distance as possible?

That's quite normal though isn't it? It's the unwanted 'chat' that's weird. And that in turn makes women feel like they can't/shouldn't engage with men at all.

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 23:14

Olivegardenishome · 23/02/2024 23:05

Well this thread is full of surprises. I haven’t slept in 45 hours, is this summary correct?

  • a man in his 40’s/50’s, on his bike, trying to start conversations with lone teenage women, not thinking his behaviour is remotely creepy, wrote a long post “to men” advising them how to conduct themselves around women.
  • man thinking women exist for him to practice his social skills on because he finds small talk with men boring. Never mind the fact women find it boring too but he’s going to inflict himself on them regardless.
  • a man mansplaining women’s perceived safety to a predominantly women’s website.
  • a man needing his ego stroked by letting other men know how not to be creepy, when in reality it’s only really a very few men who are this creepy, and op is one of them. Other men responded and sound like they could teach OP.
  • Man disguising himself as white knight and rescuer to women against creepy men. Like himself.
  • grown man tantrum when women (and men) saw through the BS and called him out on his behaviour. OP left conversation as nobody had anything sensible to add (read as, didn’t rub his ego like he intended)

but the biggest surprise for me is that this fucking boring drivel written by OP that was borderline painful to read because it was just so fucking mind numbingly boring, was written by a ‘writer’ 😂 I kid you not. I think I’m going delirious now through tiredness to be finding this equally amusing and strange, sorry if this post is not coherent!

The 'writer' bit totally jumped the shark 😂

lljkk · 23/02/2024 23:22

Does this thread have a purpose? @MNHQ should delete this thread.

How can CyclingSam claim to be a regular and not know that some MNers are extremely rabid men-haters and therefore what the OP would surely encounter.

How can someone stand being so navel gazing and angsty as CSam?

WTF is wrong with people who can't tolerate someone random saying hello & other bland verbal trivialities.

-From a (female) cyclist & runner, after dark or in the day time person.

ProfessionalBuilding · 24/02/2024 00:27

Chickenkeev · 23/02/2024 23:11

That's quite normal though isn't it? It's the unwanted 'chat' that's weird. And that in turn makes women feel like they can't/shouldn't engage with men at all.

.

Catsmere · 24/02/2024 00:55

Olivegardenishome · 23/02/2024 23:05

Well this thread is full of surprises. I haven’t slept in 45 hours, is this summary correct?

  • a man in his 40’s/50’s, on his bike, trying to start conversations with lone teenage women, not thinking his behaviour is remotely creepy, wrote a long post “to men” advising them how to conduct themselves around women.
  • man thinking women exist for him to practice his social skills on because he finds small talk with men boring. Never mind the fact women find it boring too but he’s going to inflict himself on them regardless.
  • a man mansplaining women’s perceived safety to a predominantly women’s website.
  • a man needing his ego stroked by letting other men know how not to be creepy, when in reality it’s only really a very few men who are this creepy, and op is one of them. Other men responded and sound like they could teach OP.
  • Man disguising himself as white knight and rescuer to women against creepy men. Like himself.
  • grown man tantrum when women (and men) saw through the BS and called him out on his behaviour. OP left conversation as nobody had anything sensible to add (read as, didn’t rub his ego like he intended)

but the biggest surprise for me is that this fucking boring drivel written by OP that was borderline painful to read because it was just so fucking mind numbingly boring, was written by a ‘writer’ 😂 I kid you not. I think I’m going delirious now through tiredness to be finding this equally amusing and strange, sorry if this post is not coherent!

Perfect summary! 😄

WalkingThroughTreacle · 24/02/2024 11:32

You'd think someone who considers themself a writer wouldn't have such a glaring plot hole in their story. One man to another, I'm sure you won't mind me mansplaining it for you. Strap yourself in.

"On my ride yesterday I passed a woman by the side of the road".

Except, the interaction you go on to describe couldn't possibly have happened if you had actually passed her. You clearly stopped beside her, uninvited. Why? Reading the rest of your post, the why is clear to me. You are an insufererable bore with an overinflated sense of your own importance and a communication style that makes others cringe. Although you've probably never admitted it to yourself, you've taken to cycling because it's one of those pursuits that doesn't require friends, or even just acquaintances who are willing to spend time in your company. If only one-a-side football were a thing you could have a bit of variety.

You are desperate for social interaction and have never figured out why people avoid you like the plague. So when you find someone in a situation where they can't easily escape, you jump on the opportunity. You're wary of doing this to men because some have been rather blunt with you in the past, sometimes even a bit aggressive. You've found women, especially lone women in isolated locations, to be much less reactive. You're too lacking in empathy to realise that they are just trying not to escalate a situation that makes them feel at risk. Maybe you genuinely believe they enjoy having your uninvited company foisted on them, or maybe you're just so far up your own arse you simply don't care. I mean, you're part of the clearly superior 50% of the population, and a cyclist to boot. Why would they not want you to share your wit and wisdom with them?

So here you are. Out on your regular Johnny-no-mates cycle, when a lone female comes into view. Oh my, she's actually stationary as well. Perfect! You hone in on her like a spider that's caught a fly in its web. You're too self-absorbed to notice that she's got ear buds in so you crack on with one of your more mundane conversation starters. Except she doesn't hear you and in a rare moment of self-awareness you realise your opener was so cringe even you can't bear to hear it repeated. The moment is lost and you can only scuttle off and hope to find another victim further down the road.

You're gutted. A near perfect opportunity and you blew it. How can you salvage something from the situation? Ah! You can use it as an anecdote to demonstrate how worldly wise you are. Not a conversational anecdote though because nobody willingly converses with you, so the written word it will have to be. You spend hours crafting yet another of your literary masterpieces and read it back to yourself, your chest puffed up with pride. Where to share it? You might chance a male dominated forum, a cycling one perhaps, but they have a nasty habit of telling you to bore off. So what better than a forum predominantly populated by that 50% of the population that you've found to be far more passive. Mumsnet! Not just women but mums. Soft, gentle, nurturing, caring mums. So you post and sit back, waiting for the warm and appreciative embrace you are sure to get.

Except, what the hell just happened? These aren't the soft, cuddly mums of fairytales and children's TV. These are real women. Strong, confident, capable women. They will tolerate men within reason but this is their domain, a very rare space where they have majority, and they will not hesitate to defend it. So instead of being greeted with the sense of awe and wonder that you hoped for, they immediately see through you and proceed to tear you to shreds. I wonder what lessons you learned from that.

I know you've flounced off vowing never to return so maybe I wasted my time writing this. Except, we all know you'll check back in. You might give it a day or two for your wounds to heal but you will check back. Your ego will compel you.

So here's my closing advise to you. Just leave women be, especially when they are alone. Their right to feel safe takes absolute priority over your desire for social interaction. No matter how nice and nonthreatening you believe you are, they don't see you that way. That is their right and completely understandable. You are a strange man and men, as a class, have proven themselves to be potentially dangerous to lone women. We have to accept that as the undeniable ugly truth. If you are genuinely an ally to women then act like one. If you come across one on your travels, you don't need to say anything. At most, a half smile and "good morning", making sure not to break stride so they don't worry you are trying to get them to interact with you. Move well to the side as you pass to demonstrate that you acknowledge their personal space and have no intention of infringing on it. Then be on your way. It's as easy as that.

Alchemistress · 24/02/2024 11:57

I hope this link works

www.instagram.com/reel/CtGGnFaocVG/?igsh=bngzYzJ4NTFzbDJ6

innerdesign · 24/02/2024 12:07

Alchemistress · 24/02/2024 11:57

Lol I thought of this too 😂 note he never once slows down...

Alchemistress · 24/02/2024 12:15

It's the "Free Britney" that cracks me up.

warmheartcoldfeet · 24/02/2024 12:18

Thank you @WalkingThroughTreacle !
Awesome post

PinkArt · 24/02/2024 12:36

CyclingSam · 23/02/2024 03:20

I stopped reading after my last reply. When people are obviously misconstruing what I say, or reading it with the sole aim of twisting it around, and simply making stuff up, there's no point in my continuing. Life is too short.

In the event anyone has said anything sensible after I left, thank you, and sorry I didn't get a chance to read it. To the rest of you, have fun talking to yourselves (and bumping the thread). Enjoy your pile on.

I asked for opinions and am happy to get them

A thread of two parts 😂
God all these pesky women explaining why their lived experience means we can see this Nice Guy's™️ behaviour is creepy as fuck.
Fascinating to get an insight into what those random creeps who start taking at us are like in their own minds though.

Frequency · 24/02/2024 12:40

I don't cycle or run but I do walk my dog often at dark due to my shift patterns. He has not yet mastered the art of not throwing himself at anyone who so much as glances at him.

He's very loving and his love is best described as violently enthusiastic. He does have a command to walk close to my side with his nose touching my palm which I use to control him when passing other people.

When strange men try to talk to me I don't give him that command.

I don't mind a nod or hello as we pass, it's the slowing down (to chat/harass) that makes me nervous.

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