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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Calling all men

148 replies

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 16:49

Is it unreasonable to share the following, specifically addressed to men and crossposted on a number of cycling forums, on a site largely populated by women, because I want their opinions as well?

On my ride yesterday I passed a woman by the side of the road. It happens. They are, after all, half the human race.

She'd been running. No matter, I'll talk to anyone if the opportunity presents itself: even non-cyclists.

I said this: "The roads around here." My full meaning, from one road user to another, was along the lines of "The roads sure are terrible, aren't they?", the context being the appalling stretch of tarmac I had just picked a careful line through.

She looked up, uncertain why I was talking to her. I noticed she appeared to be wearing headphones. She was also a bit younger than I'd first thought, maybe late teens or early 20s. She said "Pardon?"

I don't remember exactly how I replied, only that I hadn't meant to alarm her. She sort of smiled and that was that.

Except that wasn't that. I immediately mentally kicked myself for having disturbed her, on whatever level. That half smile could have meant anything from "You're so right, the bloody council, what are they like?" to "[Smile placates strange man.]"

It's normally fine to chat to people, half the human race included, on these chance encounters. But it's easy to forget, particularly when you're a man, that you should choose your moments carefully.

Example 1: Woman walking dog. Say "Hello!" to announce myself as a passing cyclist (I don't favour bells for this purpose: a little too pushy, despite the seemingly cheery Ring-ring!) A Hello! is always appreciated, judging by how often I'm thanked. The sex of the person never comes into it, other than perhaps a split second as they quickly grok the situation.

Example 2: The scenario presented above. It's unclear why this stranger is suddenly talking to you. While it can be cleared up quickly, it can just as quickly get awkward. Chalk up what they call a teachable moment in a lifetime of them. Every day is school day.

From The Guardian a few years ago:
Men must learn how to make women feel safe while exercising
It is unbelievable that Chris Boardman’s words can be so basic and obvious to female athletes and yet still so needed by men (Calling all men: this is what we can do to help women feel safe exercising in the dark, 30 October). Exercising solo, especially at night, is often a different experience for the two. One day last year I was cycling along the (very wide) Forth and Clyde canal; my fitness was great and I had a fine tailwind. I passed a man who had been dawdling, when suddenly he sped up and started slipstreaming me, within a couple of feet. This was in broad daylight, but the canal was empty.

I was worried in case he was somehow angered by me passing him, so I kept going for around 5km, after which my panic was really starting to interfere aerobically. I signalled that I was going to stop as he was so close to me, sat down on a bench and pulled out some food. He stopped too. “Thanks. I needed that,” he said, before asking me about the rest of my cycle. I refused to engage as I was recovering from the shock. A perfect example of how some men have no idea how intimidating their actions can be to women.

I'm not some knight in shining armour on a mission to protect all womenkind. I'm just a guy offering advice to other guys who may not have given this stuff much thought before.

Men must learn how to make women feel safe while exercising | Letters

Letters: Dr Kathy Dodworth says some men have no idea how intimidating their actions can be. Plus letters from Alison Chubb, David Winter, Frank Paice and Keith Irish

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/04/men-must-learn-how-to-make-women-feel-safe-while-exercising

OP posts:
Springsombrero · 22/02/2024 19:42

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 16:49

Is it unreasonable to share the following, specifically addressed to men and crossposted on a number of cycling forums, on a site largely populated by women, because I want their opinions as well?

On my ride yesterday I passed a woman by the side of the road. It happens. They are, after all, half the human race.

She'd been running. No matter, I'll talk to anyone if the opportunity presents itself: even non-cyclists.

I said this: "The roads around here." My full meaning, from one road user to another, was along the lines of "The roads sure are terrible, aren't they?", the context being the appalling stretch of tarmac I had just picked a careful line through.

She looked up, uncertain why I was talking to her. I noticed she appeared to be wearing headphones. She was also a bit younger than I'd first thought, maybe late teens or early 20s. She said "Pardon?"

I don't remember exactly how I replied, only that I hadn't meant to alarm her. She sort of smiled and that was that.

Except that wasn't that. I immediately mentally kicked myself for having disturbed her, on whatever level. That half smile could have meant anything from "You're so right, the bloody council, what are they like?" to "[Smile placates strange man.]"

It's normally fine to chat to people, half the human race included, on these chance encounters. But it's easy to forget, particularly when you're a man, that you should choose your moments carefully.

Example 1: Woman walking dog. Say "Hello!" to announce myself as a passing cyclist (I don't favour bells for this purpose: a little too pushy, despite the seemingly cheery Ring-ring!) A Hello! is always appreciated, judging by how often I'm thanked. The sex of the person never comes into it, other than perhaps a split second as they quickly grok the situation.

Example 2: The scenario presented above. It's unclear why this stranger is suddenly talking to you. While it can be cleared up quickly, it can just as quickly get awkward. Chalk up what they call a teachable moment in a lifetime of them. Every day is school day.

From The Guardian a few years ago:
Men must learn how to make women feel safe while exercising
It is unbelievable that Chris Boardman’s words can be so basic and obvious to female athletes and yet still so needed by men (Calling all men: this is what we can do to help women feel safe exercising in the dark, 30 October). Exercising solo, especially at night, is often a different experience for the two. One day last year I was cycling along the (very wide) Forth and Clyde canal; my fitness was great and I had a fine tailwind. I passed a man who had been dawdling, when suddenly he sped up and started slipstreaming me, within a couple of feet. This was in broad daylight, but the canal was empty.

I was worried in case he was somehow angered by me passing him, so I kept going for around 5km, after which my panic was really starting to interfere aerobically. I signalled that I was going to stop as he was so close to me, sat down on a bench and pulled out some food. He stopped too. “Thanks. I needed that,” he said, before asking me about the rest of my cycle. I refused to engage as I was recovering from the shock. A perfect example of how some men have no idea how intimidating their actions can be to women.

I'm not some knight in shining armour on a mission to protect all womenkind. I'm just a guy offering advice to other guys who may not have given this stuff much thought before.

Pretty sure I’d have a similar reaction if a woman I didn’t know made a random comment about road quality to be honest, especially if I was listening to music.

StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips · 22/02/2024 19:43

The arrogance is breathtaking honestly.

Trying to tout yourself as some type of expert while simultaneously being exactly the same as every other ignorant man on the planet.

ToastedTeacakesAndStrawberries · 22/02/2024 19:46

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:29

With respect, I can think of few things more likely to bore me than small talk with other men. But I take the point (as I would, having written the OP) that spur of the moment talk with women is a trickier thing.

Of course you have only my word on this, but in 20+ years of cycling in my neck of the woods (though granted far less of that chatting away - I'm a late blooming extrovert), I can count the number of uncomfortable encounters on... 1 finger.

I would gently suggest you ask yourself... Uncomfortable for whom? The one you can count on one finger was noticeably uncomfortable for you. But women are generally very very good (having learnt the hard way that pissing men off is unsafe) at pitching words and tone right to hide their discomfort, because showing it can cause conflict or an escalation of the encounter from small talk to demands of why you're so up-tight, what's wrong, etc that are best avoided.

I'm not saying never talk to women, I have friends who seem to enjoy chatting to everyone, male or female, young or old. But be aware that just because you can't see any discomfort doesn't mean it isn't there. I wouldn't be comfortable with you chatting to me, I wouldn't show it though unless I was in a very safe situation.

Cheesyfootballs01 · 22/02/2024 19:52

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:38

It was the way you said it – "Small talk with other men." Just sounded kind of provincial, I guess. I talk to men most of the time, as it's mostly men on the road.

I'm well into the age of majority, a 70s child (women aren't the only ones who aren't keen on disclosing their exact age), and quite happily married.

I never said about small talk with other men - that was a different poster….

My question was why does talking to men bore you and why do you want to talk to women? You still haven’t answered it.

You don’t need to say your age but if you were born in the 70’s then you are in your 50s.

And you’re asking questions on how to talk to random women to ‘build’ your social skills?

Nobody knows or cares if you are happily married - you are just another middle age man trying to talk to women who are not interested.

The young women who you made the banal comment about the road? Her smile was probably polite so she could get away safely.

You may be a nice guy but just leave women be.

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:53

Perhaps all I can say at this point is, please reread the OP. It was written for men, to bring this issue to their awareness. I'm quite aware of it already.

OP posts:
innerdesign · 22/02/2024 19:55

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:53

Perhaps all I can say at this point is, please reread the OP. It was written for men, to bring this issue to their awareness. I'm quite aware of it already.

I read your OP. You said you wanted womens' opinions. Here they are. But, surprise, you don't like them... I suspect what you actually wanted was to be told how great you are, how in touch with women you are, how lucky we all are that you're out here white-knighting. No.

StoatofDisarray · 22/02/2024 19:56

Use a bell. I don't want to interact with you.

Cheesyfootballs01 · 22/02/2024 19:58

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:53

Perhaps all I can say at this point is, please reread the OP. It was written for men, to bring this issue to their awareness. I'm quite aware of it already.

But what is your point? And why do you think there are going to be loads of men on a site that is mainly for women?

Come on OP, you wanted women to say how great you are and that you are NLTM..

Oh and the correct way to pass anyone when cycling? Ring your bell, say thank you when you pass and crack on.

ScentlessAprentice · 22/02/2024 19:59

With respect, I can think of few things more likely to bore me than small talk with other men. So you freely admit that you find small talk with other men boring. Yet you fully expect women to engage with your boring small talk. Why?

A hello is also an invitation to a possible conversation, and I ride, in part, to exercise my skills as a social animal. And I run to get exercise, enjoy the fresh air, listen to some good music, and for my mental health. As I am entitled to do. I am not some prop for you to 'exercise your skills as a social animal on'. Sit down, as this might come as a bit of a shock - women don't exist for the convenience and entertainment of men.

StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips · 22/02/2024 19:59

innerdesign · 22/02/2024 19:55

I read your OP. You said you wanted womens' opinions. Here they are. But, surprise, you don't like them... I suspect what you actually wanted was to be told how great you are, how in touch with women you are, how lucky we all are that you're out here white-knighting. No.

Yup, he recognised that he made one woman uncomfortable once and now expects us all to fawn over him for not being like other men, and think he's amazing for spreading his manly wisdom to other men. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

Oneofthesurvivors · 22/02/2024 20:10

Don't talk to women you don't know, it's simple.

Oneofthesurvivors · 22/02/2024 20:13

Also, if you really wanted the maximum number of men to read this, you wouldn't have posted it here.

blooblom · 22/02/2024 20:14

She didn't want to talk to you because she was busy. You know, listening to music and running...Not every woman outside their house wants to be approached and chatted at by strangers. The arrogance, eugh.

shearwater2 · 22/02/2024 20:19

Whatever you say, don't let it be "Shouldn't you be running?" when I was walking or "Shouldn't you be on your bike?" when I had to get off and walk on a steep hill.

If those are an example of your brain farts, say nothing at all.

IvorTheEngineDriver · 22/02/2024 20:19

As a man, can I just say that this simply confirms what many of us think about cyclists.

Arrogant tossers the whole lot of them.

5128gap · 22/02/2024 20:21

Its interesting OP, I'm a woman, and a similar age to you. Yet it would never even cross my mind to imagine that a young man in his 20s out running would want me to engage him in conversation. I wouldn't have be concerned about frightening him, yet I'd still not impose myself on him. The arrogance of men to think as long as they're not intimidating they're welcome, is quite something.

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 20:27

Oneofthesurvivors · 22/02/2024 20:13

Also, if you really wanted the maximum number of men to read this, you wouldn't have posted it here.

I've posted it at three cycling forums which are predominantly populated by men. I posted it here because I'm a long time mumsnetter (usually over at the feminism board, though as an ally rather than a feminist, which I don't think men can be), and because I'm a masochist. Clearly.

OP posts:
Nightjaaard · 22/02/2024 20:33

IvorTheEngineDriver · 22/02/2024 20:19

As a man, can I just say that this simply confirms what many of us think about cyclists.

Arrogant tossers the whole lot of them.

I second this as another fellow male, please take your lycra clad cycle ride and stick it where the sun don't shine.

For one I don't need someone like you to advise me how and when to talk to lone females I don't know, especially in remote or lone areas or even when they are exercising. Simple I just don't, unless either I have noticed they were in distress, they approach me first or they being harassed by someone like you. 🙄

blooblom · 22/02/2024 20:37

Oh an ally!

Somethingsnappy · 22/02/2024 20:43

IvorTheEngineDriver · 22/02/2024 20:19

As a man, can I just say that this simply confirms what many of us think about cyclists.

Arrogant tossers the whole lot of them.

😂

neonjumper · 22/02/2024 20:43

This is so cringey ... just let people get on with exercising, you don't need to make any conversation.

You're behaving like the big I am ... coming on here and wanting a majority female board to do what exactly ... thank you ?????

Mumof2teens79 · 22/02/2024 20:53

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 19:53

Perhaps all I can say at this point is, please reread the OP. It was written for men, to bring this issue to their awareness. I'm quite aware of it already.

Are you though?
You spoke unnecessarily to a!lone woman you were "PASSING" you were cycling she was on foot
In 45 years no one passing me on a bike has ever spoken to me.
Your posts are mansplainy and patronising

StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips · 22/02/2024 20:59

CyclingSam · 22/02/2024 20:27

I've posted it at three cycling forums which are predominantly populated by men. I posted it here because I'm a long time mumsnetter (usually over at the feminism board, though as an ally rather than a feminist, which I don't think men can be), and because I'm a masochist. Clearly.

You're an ally? You post regularly on feminism?

Yet you didn't realise that you shouldn't be speaking to lone women just trying to get on with their day.

Then the second you do realise you decide to mansplain your thoughts to anyone you think may listen. Hope you're getting the required backslapping and praise elsewhere for your creative writing piece about your sudden realisation you acted like a knob, because it doesn't look like this is the space for your ego boost.

Giggorata · 22/02/2024 21:11

As someone said upthread, it is quite simple.
Don't try and engage women you don't know.

I don't know why men insist on coming on to Mumsnet, either.
Well, actually, some of them are coming to perv and some are coming for some kind of validation.
StopTheBusINeedAWeeWeeAWeeWeeBagOChips Has it right.

MorningSunshineSparkles · 22/02/2024 21:11

Yeah I’d be creeped the hell out if you attempted to talk to me. Stay away, leave women alone.

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