to be fed up with homophobia on MN

[smittenkitten]

today there was the thread about being 'uncomfortable' with a secondary school telling kids it's OK to be gay. a short while ago there was a post about someone being freaked out by two women kissing on a bus.

calling it being 'uncomfortable' is still homophobia. we wouldn't tolerate racism on here - imagine "i'm concerned that my DC's school wants to say it's OK to be black". the OP would be rightly slammed, but instead the queers on MN have to put up with people defending bigotry saying that people are entitled to have a POV etc.

Freedom of speech does not include the right to victimise and marginalise others for their race, religion, sexuality, age or other irrelevant attributes. I don't think its unreasonable to want MN to be a safe space where we don't have to deal with homophobia.

Also I have both gay and lesbian friends but I would not like them making out in front of my children any more then I would like my non gay friends doing it.

you see, i woudn't dream of saying with certainty that i'm not bigoted or prejudiced, because I am human and therefore of COURSE i have prejudices. of course i do.

your certainty is not the most fertile ground for the tolerance you profess to have tbh.

no one readily admits to being a bigot, though, do they? almost by definition.

Aitch: See new posts on the original thread

i'm sure i must be one, for example. how can i not be? madamez is a morris dancer, for example. i get a bit nauseous about that...

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Aitch, you really do need to see the other thread, you are a mere amateur in the bigotry admission stakes I promise you

lol i just looked. blimey. is pukka chocolate-allergic and suffering a bad reaction? ho hum, like i said on that thread, i think that the OP of that thread was pretty benign in what she said and open to discussion. not everyone, as is increasingly clear on both threads, is.

Stuff like being uncomfortable around the concept of homosexuality being introduced into the classroom in whatever form pales against this sort of thing.

There's no place for it on MN.

I've not twisted your words MF. You seem to think that having conventional, right on, views that are intolerant of opinons and identities different to your own means you can't be wrong. But sometimes the conventional, widely accepted view is wrong. Otherwise, how can conventions change over time?

Kimi summed it up better than I could with "
I am all for live and let live but I don't have to like how another person lives, my personal view is not victimizing."

I am very uncomfortable when the thought police come out. Now I am off to have dinner with some close friends of mine who happen to be a gay couple. We will discuss these ideas over a bottle of wine or three & I know they will be open to discussing the difference between discomfort and homophobia, maybe because they have nothing to prove.

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see, i do agree with you there. and apart from the sex thing i think it's a maturity issue (which may or may not be related to age). i was probably that certain that i was Right when i was younger, as you get older you see more shades of grey. and not just in your plain and unexciting pubic area.

i think you're not really understanding upwind's point, MF, that's all. being so convinced that you're right is a bit dangerous in a world subject to change...

MF no, iirc they would of course prefer people were not homophobic. But I think their definition is a bit more restricted than yours.

Yes I really do think you are a bigot. I am pretty sure I will have some unfounded prejudices myself, though I tend to be pretty tolerant of other peoples beliefs - but not their actions.

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding public displays of snoggery and groping distasteful but I feel that to call someone bigoted if they disapprove of homophobic attitudes is wrong.

I don't agree with all of MF's views but I feel that Upwind's comment about MF being bigoted towards Muslims and Catholics was uncalled for especially since MF clarified her point afterwards - that is what I meant by twisting her words.

should be: they know I would prefer people were not homophobic

they also know there is not a huge amount I could or would do about it, so my having an opinion about other peoples beliefs would not be worth much

bigotry is generally entreched as we are seeing here

Wisteria, now you really are twisting my words. I did not say she was, I asked:

By Upwind on Mon 24-Mar-08 17:43:22
MF

"I am not bigoted against catholics and muslims, at all. I am against people who have the views that being gay is wrong."

I don't know about muslims, but I do know that Catholic teaching is not that being gay is wrong but that acting on those desires is. In the same way that any sex outside of marriage is. So it is the sexual activity that is considered wrong, not the homosexuality.

Would you be bigoted against people who hold those views? And if so is that really homophobia? IMHO it is not.

By Desiderata on Mon 24-Mar-08 18:08:49

"I hate, I fucking hate seeing people kiss in public. It quite literally makes me want to puke."

Couldnt agree more. Gender does not come into play at all.

I remember in high school I actually went to the extreme of telling snogging folk off, if they did it in the canteen at school, it put me off my food.

I am not a prude. I too give a damned fine BlowJob, however, when you know how turned on you get from snogging, it is a little too private for the public domain.

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So does the Catholic church permit homosexual marriage, Upwind?

Because if they don't, what they're basically saying is that you can never act on your desires.

You can never have a shag.

Ever.

What a crock of shit religion is.

MF - that was a few minutes ago just after you finally convinced me you were by stating:

"And yes, I am intolerant of homophobes. If that makes you think I am bigoted, then so be it."

now I really have to go

By Upwind
If not it would seem that you are bigoted against muslims and catholics for a start..

replied to by MF

If I were bigoted, I would be against catholics or muslims because they are catholic or muslim. I'm not.

and then you carried on with the other part, you also told her that she was bigoted towards bigots which was just ridiculous.

I just think that portion of the thread became a little daft...........

I don't think I have twisted your words but that was my take on it.