Page 4 | Excluding a friend?

StephPlum · 2024-02-20T13:16:21+00:00

In the last few years my friendship group has settled into a nice little group of 5. We have a WhatsApp that's busy with chat and support and we often get together with or without families. Husbands all get along too. Before Xmas friend 1 told friend 2 that she's moving her child to a new school because of bullying that friend 2's child was involved in. Friend 1 insisted she didn't want to fall out, but friend 2 was upset, said it was all liesbso they had words and friend 1 left the WhatsApp. Friend 1 has kept in touch with everyone except friend 2. When sending invites to stuff friend 1 includes everyone (Inc. Friend 2, who won't join in). Friend 2 won't join anything that friend 1 is involved in. So we've had a few get together with just friend 2. Friend 1 found out about this and is really upset. She thinks they should both be included in everything, and that we are actually preventing a reconciliation by enabling friend 2 to just leave her out. She left the WhatsApp group herself but is now feeling excluded. If we didn't do anything with friend 2 separately she wouldn't see any of us. Aibu to leave out friend 1 sometimes?

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 20/02/2024 14:59

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 13:40

I've been trying to encourage friend 1 to make more of an effort to resolve things. She is saying that she reached out a few times before Xmas with no response and beyond ensuring friend 2 isn't left out she's not really interested now in more than getting to a point where they can be polite to each other for everyone else's sake. I feel like she is being a cold about it all to be honest. She has lots of other friends so isn't missing out as much.

Friend 2 is utterly devasted, feels betrayed by friend 1 and that everyone will now think badly of her and her child. She said she is anxious all the time of bumping into friend 1.
Friend 1 invited us all to hers recently and friend 2 was so upset we all went.
If we invite them both friend 1 will come, which means 2 won't and then 2 will be so upset. She's definitely finding the whole thing harder than friend 1.

Friend 2 shouldn’t be condoning the bullying of her child then should she?

easylikeasundaymorn · 20/02/2024 15:00

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 13:55

If it was me I would have kept quiet really. I don't really understand why she had to tell friend 2 at all

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I mean quite apart from the fact that presumably she told friend 2 in the hope friend 2 would DO something about the bullying, surely the rest of you would have asked anyway about why her child had moved schools given you were so close? Then if she'd told you it's because her dc was being bullied friend 2 would feel as though she was talking about her behind her back and probably be unhappy about that too. Unless you expect friend 1 to lie about the reason for the school move it would have inevitably come out at some point.

MississippiAF · 20/02/2024 15:00

I also see how much more upset friend 2 is about it all, and that she doesn't really have anyone outside of our group (which I think is part of why it's all so devastating for her).

There’s always a reason why people don’t have anyone…

PurpleHiker · 20/02/2024 15:01

Friend 1 is the only one being reasonable here. She made efforts to reach out to friend 2 before Christmas but was ignored. Sounds like friend 2 makes a habit of falling out with people and perhaps that is why she has no one outside of the group.

Residentevil · 20/02/2024 15:05

Friend 1 is a bigger person than I am. If my dc was being bullied to the extent I had to change their school and my ‘friend’ minimised it rather than trying to resolve it properly, I wouldn’t speak to her again. Never mind being prepared to still socialise together.

Caramilk · 20/02/2024 15:06

Friend 2 sounds very manipulative, controlling and “woe is me”. The fact that she completely minimised the bullying her child was involved in is a big red flag too. She’s embarrassed and trying to exclude Friend 1 to cover her up her own failings as as parent is my take.

Totally this. I've been bullied over the last few years by someone who I thought of as a friend and I worked with. She has not responded at any point to me trying to smooth things over or reach out olive branches. She's also bullied several other people who quietly left, and only recently have I become aware. Now others are commenting because they have seen things, and suddenly she's terribly distressed. Not enough to apologise at all, but she's doing a big "woe is me. I feel terrible being accused of bullying, and it's so unfair that people are thinking badly" of her. And she's continuing to lie about me.

There is absolutely no remorse and it's all about how dreadful she feels because of being accused. There is no sympathy at all for the fact I have been suicidal and deeply depressed. If anything she's rather gleeful about it.
And the reason she has been able to behave like that and continue to behave like that is because there's a small group of vocal people who fall for the "poor little me" act and whenever she's been caught pat her on the head and say how much they know she's doing her best and trying so hard and they know she couldn't possibly have meant it...

I honestly believe that if that group gave her some tough love and told her that yes she has been bullying, and no they won't let her do it again, and they will stick up for her victims then it would have been better all round. Because, you know what, I'm off now, and I can totally guarantee she'll pick her next victim, and it might be one of them.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 20/02/2024 15:10

Barrenfieldoffucks · 20/02/2024 14:49

Just because friend 1 said it was so, doesn't mean it was. If the school also saw nothing wrong, as well as other children, then it may well have been nothing more than Friend 2's child having other friends as well as his mum's friend's child. Said boy didn't like this, and perceived it as being bullied, especially if he has a mother prone to victimhood and 'nuclear options'.

Friend 1 has dropped a bomb on friend 2, and now expects her to act like everything is a ok while this other friend thinks her child is a bully.

Friend 1 should just carry on as she is, and if friend 2 wants to join then she can. And you guys can see friend 2 if you want as well.

Friend 2 doesn't want to be friends with friend 1 at the moment. She is hurt by her child being accused of bullying, and being expected to brush that away. Friend 1 isn't allowing friend 2 the time or space to move past that. Maybe they won't reconcile, doesn't mean you others have to pick a team.

Friend 2 doesn't want any of you to be friends with friend 1 at the moment.

FTFY

BeachBeerBbq · 20/02/2024 15:12

Who needs nemies with mates like this😶

Shame on you and feel sorry for F1 (someone has to since none of you seem to be!)

weefella · 20/02/2024 15:13

Friend 2 sounds incredibly manipulative. She's already succeeded in getting you all to exclude Friend 1 and still acts as though she is somehow the victim in all of this.

Invite both friends to group events. If Friend 2 chooses not to go, then that's the choice that she needs to live with.

MississippiAF · 20/02/2024 15:15

Friend 2 sounds incredibly manipulative. She's already succeeded in getting you all to exclude Friend 1 and still acts as though she is somehow the victim in all of this.m

And Friend 2’s DC is showing signs of being exactly the same. This is how it works. Eventually when the dust settles in time, you’ll see exactly which friend is always causing surrounded by drama. And this involves being SO SO SO upset at this situation.

Original poster

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 15:15

MiddleParking · 20/02/2024 14:46

It’s that bit in brackets that I think is kind of crucial though. Realistically, there is only one way for friend 2 to maintain her other friendships in a way that’s any way comfortable. I think if you want to be close friends with other parents at your child’s school, you’re going to have to be pragmatic about how you land any uncomfortable child-based stuff with those parents - I don’t think you can reasonably expect your friend to say oh so sorry your child thinks mine’s an awful bully and you’re moving them in year 6 because of it, see you tomorrow for bottomless brunch.

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This is exactly the point friend 2 made to me, and also suggested it added weight to her argument that friend 1 wasn't being truthful. If the whole thing was true she wouldn't actually want to socialise with the group as a whole.
Friend 1 was hoping the kids friendship.would improve following the school change and things could get back to normal- she said anyway.
I don't know where to go.with it

OP posts:

bottomsup12 · 20/02/2024 15:17

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 13:40

I've been trying to encourage friend 1 to make more of an effort to resolve things. She is saying that she reached out a few times before Xmas with no response and beyond ensuring friend 2 isn't left out she's not really interested now in more than getting to a point where they can be polite to each other for everyone else's sake. I feel like she is being a cold about it all to be honest. She has lots of other friends so isn't missing out as much.

Friend 2 is utterly devasted, feels betrayed by friend 1 and that everyone will now think badly of her and her child. She said she is anxious all the time of bumping into friend 1.
Friend 1 invited us all to hers recently and friend 2 was so upset we all went.
If we invite them both friend 1 will come, which means 2 won't and then 2 will be so upset. She's definitely finding the whole thing harder than friend 1.

Sounds like friend 2 is playing victim and manipulating you all. Friend 2 sounds like a bully as well as her child

TheSoundThatIWasHearing · 20/02/2024 15:21

This happened to me a long time ago. I was in friendship group of 3, and friend A suddenly did something to me that was unbelievably nasty. Friend B announced she was staying out of it and being neutral. I thought sod that - friend B can't be much of a friend of she'll stand by and let that happen to me without a word. So I ended both friendships.

They stayed in touch with each other, but a few years later friend A did exactly the same to friend B. No surprise there. I got a message through the grapevine, I think with the intention that I was supposed to get back in touch and sympathise with her. No thank you.
I guess that's a long way of saying that it's unlikely that you will all stay friends. When shit like this happens, there's rarely a way for anyone to come out of it unaffected.

PossumintheHouse · 20/02/2024 15:24

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 15:15

This is exactly the point friend 2 made to me, and also suggested it added weight to her argument that friend 1 wasn't being truthful. If the whole thing was true she wouldn't actually want to socialise with the group as a whole.
Friend 1 was hoping the kids friendship.would improve following the school change and things could get back to normal- she said anyway.
I don't know where to go.with it

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I’ve lost patience with you now. Are you actually reading the responses to this thread? You’ve sided with the twatty one.

Macaroni46 · 20/02/2024 15:25

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 13:40

I've been trying to encourage friend 1 to make more of an effort to resolve things. She is saying that she reached out a few times before Xmas with no response and beyond ensuring friend 2 isn't left out she's not really interested now in more than getting to a point where they can be polite to each other for everyone else's sake. I feel like she is being a cold about it all to be honest. She has lots of other friends so isn't missing out as much.

Friend 2 is utterly devasted, feels betrayed by friend 1 and that everyone will now think badly of her and her child. She said she is anxious all the time of bumping into friend 1.
Friend 1 invited us all to hers recently and friend 2 was so upset we all went.
If we invite them both friend 1 will come, which means 2 won't and then 2 will be so upset. She's definitely finding the whole thing harder than friend 1.

Friend 2 needs to get over herself and reflect on her and her DC's behaviour. She sounds self-absorbed. More worried about her reputation then who she or her child have actually hurt. I'd steer clear of her. She's shown her true colours!

bottomsup12 · 20/02/2024 15:26

acatcalledjohn · 20/02/2024 14:28

This is baffling.

Friend 1 decided to move her year 6 child to a different school. Moving schools in the last year of primary seems a last resort and very disruptive for the child.
Friend 1 explained to friend 2 why she has done so (fair) and also explained she doesn't want to fall out over it (also fair).
Friend 1 has left the WhatsApp group because of friend 2's reaction to the previous point.
Friend 1 stands by what she has said and still doesn't exclude friend 2.

Friend 2 gets upset because you all went to something friend 1 invited you all to and she chose to not go.

If you cannot see how manipulative friend 2 is being then you are blind. Friend 2 is only crying because she isn't being pandered to. I can totally see how, with that as a role model, her son ended up siding with bullies.

Nothing friend 1 has done is unacceptable. She has been factual, kind and inclusive.

This!

MayThe4th · 20/02/2024 15:26

you’re friend2 aren’t you OP.

RiceRiceMaybe · 20/02/2024 15:31

IcyCat · 20/02/2024 14:09

So you have taken a side OP.

You obviously think friend 1 has caused the problems in the friendship by not “keeping quiet”, despite friend 1’s child being the victim in this?

The actual problem has been caused by friend 2’s child and by extension their parent, who has not only allowed their child to bully another so severely that they were forced to move schools, but now also blamed the victim and their mother for this falling out.

Presumably friend 1 thought that since they were friends with the other child’s parent, they would be able to have a rational discussion with them and hopefully resolve the issue. Friend 2 has instead decided to escalate things by calling them and their child a liar and now is trying to oust them from the friendship group. With friends like this who needs enemies!

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IcyCat has it In a nut shell.

Onabench · 20/02/2024 15:31

The only answer is to take a stand and insist on everyone being invited to everything. Add F1 back into the group chat. Stop pandering to F2. They are embarrassed by their childs behaviour and are instead acting like a bully to ignore the situation.

No happy child lies about bullying to the extant of moving schools. It is actually not an easy thing to do under such circumstances and the school will have had a lot of involvement in the move itself, so it isn’t likely it is “all lies”. Of course F1 should have told F2. I can’t believe anyone with children would think otherwise. Surely it would have become a topic of conversation eventually, given your children attend the same school? I can’t see how she could have navigated that conversation without lying about the bullying.

Original poster

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 15:41

PossumintheHouse · 20/02/2024 15:24

I’ve lost patience with you now. Are you actually reading the responses to this thread? You’ve sided with the twatty one.

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I'm sorry I am reading all your responses. They are helping I am giving them consideration

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Dontbeme · 20/02/2024 15:41

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 15:15

This is exactly the point friend 2 made to me, and also suggested it added weight to her argument that friend 1 wasn't being truthful. If the whole thing was true she wouldn't actually want to socialise with the group as a whole.
Friend 1 was hoping the kids friendship.would improve following the school change and things could get back to normal- she said anyway.
I don't know where to go.with it

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Why would Friend 1 need to lie though, to what end?
Why would anyone disrupt the education of their child, disrupt the routine and friendship group of that child for what?
What theory has Friend 2 put forward that explains why Friend 1 would lie and do all this?

Original poster

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 15:42

MayThe4th · 20/02/2024 15:26

you’re friend2 aren’t you OP.

No I'm really just stuck in the middle

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Original poster

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 15:47

Dontbeme · 20/02/2024 15:41

Why would Friend 1 need to lie though, to what end?
Why would anyone disrupt the education of their child, disrupt the routine and friendship group of that child for what?
What theory has Friend 2 put forward that explains why Friend 1 would lie and do all this?

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I've asked the same and friend 2 switches between the Child being the only liar and the Mum being jealous or her and wanting to hurt her.
If I'm really objective I don't really believe either.
I don't think friend 1 handled it at all well with friend 2 but I don't believe she or her child intentionally lied.

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DailyEnergyCrisis · 20/02/2024 15:47

Sounds like you perhaps like friend 2 more as it does feel like you’re more sympathetic to her situation when friend 1 has had the stress and upset of a child being bullied, moving schools and trying to navigate the friendship group without refusing to see friend 2 which is not being reciprocated. I think it’s fine to pick a side based on who you like more, feel closer to etc but don’t pretend it’s all about being fair and impartial.

user1984778379202 · 20/02/2024 15:51

I find it baffling Friend 1 would want to continue a friendship with Friend 2 considering the bullying was so bad she felt forced to move schools. I wouldn't want my kid around their bully even in a social situation. I'd be stepping back from the group and forging new mum friendships at the new school.

I can see it from Friend 2's point of view. Her DC has swore blind it wasn't bullying and the old school/witnesses seem to back that. Friend 1 moving their DC makes Friend 2's DC look guilty.

I don't understand why you've said Friend 1 shouldn't have said anything, @StephPlum. Do you think the bullying accusations were false?