Excluding a friend?

[StephPlum]

In the last few years my friendship group has settled into a nice little group of 5.
We have a WhatsApp that's busy with chat and support and we often get together with or without families. Husbands all get along too.
Before Xmas friend 1 told friend 2 that she's moving her child to a new school because of bullying that friend 2's child was involved in. Friend 1 insisted she didn't want to fall out, but friend 2 was upset, said it was all liesbso they had words and friend 1 left the WhatsApp.
Friend 1 has kept in touch with everyone except friend 2. When sending invites to stuff friend 1 includes everyone (Inc. Friend 2, who won't join in).
Friend 2 won't join anything that friend 1 is involved in. So we've had a few get together with just friend 2.
Friend 1 found out about this and is really upset. She thinks they should both be included in everything, and that we are actually preventing a reconciliation by enabling friend 2 to just leave her out. She left the WhatsApp group herself but is now feeling excluded.
If we didn't do anything with friend 2 separately she wouldn't see any of us.
Aibu to leave out friend 1 sometimes?

I appreciate that, your motives are clearly well intentioned in all of this. But ultimately YOU can't fix this situation. All you can do is try to be fair to both parties and not take sides (unfortunately at the moment it does look like you are favouring Friend 2, as the majority of posters think).

I would do exactly as @DodgeDog suggests and just ask everyone to everything. If Friend 2 can't cope with this, then sadly that's on her.

Friend 2 is being ridiculous and you’re all pandering to her. If this is the example her child’s had I wouldn’t be surprised that the child was involved in bullying. I feel for Friend 1, but hopefully she finds some better friends for her kid and herself.

You sound like you've pretty clearly sided with Friend 2 OP, because she's 'so upset.' Friend 1 seems to actually be the victim here, not friend 2, I'm not sure that the group is sustainable in the future.

The important thing is for the adults to have grown up adult relationships, unaffected by children being children. The kids are young and just learning so there will always be evolving dynamics but the adults should know better and behave maturely

If my child was being bullied by a friend's child and talking didn't work and got to the pont moving schools was suggested, its obviously not nothing. I can't say I would want to talk to her either as you see the suffering your child has gone through. No-one moves their child in Yr 6 when it's such an important year.

I think it is very odd to side with friend 2 so much but maybe its because your child isn't the one suffering from bullying and if you are all friend's because your children are, it won't be long before high school and there is bitchiness and hope your don't find yourself in that position.

Friend 2 said its not sustainable too. She said it'll only exist now with with either her or friend 1. She was really devastated at the prospect of the latter.
I do worry its probably the end of us all getting together as a group

This is baffling.

1. Friend 1 decided to move her year 6 child to a different school. Moving schools in the last year of primary seems a last resort and very disruptive for the child.
2. Friend 1 explained to friend 2 why she has done so (fair) and also explained she doesn't want to fall out over it (also fair).
3. Friend 1 has left the WhatsApp group because of friend 2's reaction to the previous point.
4. Friend 1 stands by what she has said and still doesn't exclude friend 2.

1. Friend 2 gets upset because you all went to something friend 1 invited you all to and she chose to not go.

If you cannot see how manipulative friend 2 is being then you are blind. Friend 2 is only crying because she isn't being pandered to. I can totally see how, with that as a role model, her son ended up siding with bullies.

Nothing friend 1 has done is unacceptable. She has been factual, kind and inclusive.

I'm trying my best not to take sides

Really?

Well.....on here you're doing a bloody good job of siding with F2

I do worry its probably the end of us all getting together as a group

Jeez. THAT is your worry? 🙄

I have been in a similar scenario, in which I fell out with a friend who was part of a group. Our friends continued to invite everyone to everything so the onus was on us to sort it out or move on, and we tried not to let it affect dynamics too much. We can attend events together fine, although wouldn't hang out just the two of us anymore. I think that's the only way to do it really without it affecting the wider group.

I am finding it all really difficult. I am sad for them both but also for the impact its having on the other 3 of us

I wish they would get to this point:(

Invite them both to everything and leave it up to them to decide if they want to come. They are adults and they should be able to work this out on their own. That said, no matter who is right or wrong, if Friend 1 left the WhatsApp group that you use to organise getting together, it's hardly right for her to be upset that she isn't included in what you organise anymore. She deleted herself from the group.

I have a friend like this. She used to message me all the time to ask if she could come to stay with us. It wasn't convenient (she always wanted to come during the week during school holidays as works a TTO job, but dh and I are busy with work during the week, even during school holidays, and it's a stressful time to have a house guest while balancing childcare and work). Eventually she got annoyed that we wouldn't give her a date for a visit so she deleted my number and blocked me on social media. She then got back in touch to say she was made we still never invited her around. But she deleted and blocked me.

I think the fair thing would be to say to Friend 1 that you'll re-add her to the group if she wants to be kept in the loop. Then between them they can work out what get togethers they'll attend. But keep inviting them both if you want to maintain your friendship with them both.

The fact that Friend 2 has also said the group is not sustainable is a clear message that she has no plans to make up with Friend 1. 'She was really devastated at the prospect of the latter' I bet she was! Because it doesn't include her!

I’ll be truthful, I think friend 2 sounds quite emotionally manipulative. A lot of childhood bullying is centred around manipulation/pushing emotional boundaries.

I can't imagine how difficult it was to decide to move your child to a different school, in year 6, when two of your friends have children who go there. So on that basis, the bullying allegations must have had some legs.

The issue is that friend 2 has painted herself into a corner by saying that no bullying has occurred. She can't undo that easily and keep face.

It's a shame, but I think friend 1 is not in the wrong here.

Friend 1 invited us all to hers recently and friend 2 was so upset we all went.
If we invite them both friend 1 will come, which means 2 won't and then 2 will be so upset.

So they've fallen out (not your business why). And only one of them has said you must pick one to exclude. I believe this conundrum solves itself.

But @StephPlum Friend 1 has got to this point, hasn't she? It's Friend 2 who has not so it's within her power to change that dynamic and agree to move on. She can choose not to do that, of course, it's up to her but I really wouldn't be siding with the friend who has made no effort to move on over the one who has. That would seem really strange to me.

They’re not going to get to that point though, because the group are allowing Friend 2 to manipulate them into leaving out Friend 1. If you really genuinely wish they would work it through, do what Lemonyyy is saying her friends did - continue to invite everyone to everything, then the onus is on Friend 2 to get over it.

It’s that bit in brackets that I think is kind of crucial though. Realistically, there is only one way for friend 2 to maintain her other friendships in a way that’s any way comfortable. I think if you want to be close friends with other parents at your child’s school, you’re going to have to be pragmatic about how you land any uncomfortable child-based stuff with those parents - I don’t think you can reasonably expect your friend to say oh so sorry your child thinks mine’s an awful bully and you’re moving them in year 6 because of it, see you tomorrow for bottomless brunch.

Exactly this.

You are essentially supporting the bullying child and bully’s mother, and also victimising family 1 by leaving them out and allowing them to have no choice but to leave the WhatsApp group.

Agree with the majority - the rest of you should carry on inviting both of them to everything, if friend 2 doesn't want to come that's on her.

It's very unlikely that friend 1 would go to the upheaval of moving a year 6 child unless there was significant evidence of bullying.

Perhaps friend 2's kid wasn't the main instigator and she feels her kid has been unfairly maligned but friend 1 has moved her kid and tried to draw a line under the whole thing- friend 2 can feel upset if she wants but she's the only one extending the drama, and she doesn't get to choose who the rest of you spend time with. If she doesn't have many other friends then you think she'd be keen to take up friend 1's olive branch, not try to "punish" friend 2 by removing her from the friendship group.

Friend 1 is trying to be fair by still inviting friend 2 to things despite probably not really wanting to see her, making an effort so the group doesn't have to choose sides, and then you all effectively chose friend 2 anyway! I can definitely see why friend 1 would be upset. At the worst her child was bullied and now her friends are siding with the bully's mother because shes manipulating you into feeling sorry for her. At best she's tried to be an adult about the situation to keep the group together and you've left her out anyway.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if the reason friend 2 doesn't have any other friends is because she's got form for this. She sounds very manipulative.

Just because friend 1 said it was so, doesn't mean it was. If the school also saw nothing wrong, as well as other children, then it may well have been nothing more than Friend 2's child having other friends as well as his mum's friend's child. Said boy didn't like this, and perceived it as being bullied, especially if he has a mother prone to victimhood and 'nuclear options'.

Friend 1 has dropped a bomb on friend 2, and now expects her to act like everything is a ok while this other friend thinks her child is a bully.

Friend 1 should just carry on as she is, and if friend 2 wants to join then she can. And you guys can see friend 2 if you want as well.

Friend 2 doesn't want to be friends with friend 1 at the moment. She is hurt by her child being accused of bullying, and being expected to brush that away. Friend 1 isn't allowing friend 2 the time or space to move past that. Maybe they won't reconcile, doesn't mean you others have to pick a team.

So friend 1 was happy to continue the friendship with 2 to whatever extent 2 could manage, and will share space civilly with 2 if they attend the same events, including inviting 2 to her home. No wonder she's got an active social life and plenty of friends.

Friend 2 has refused to consider friendship with 1, and expects other friends not to attend events that she chooses not to attend because 1 will be there. And you say she has no other friends? And because of her you're ALL going to have one less after this. Hmmm.

I genuinely can't understand why you are entertaining 2's attempts to 'punish' 1. If 1 were on here telling their side of this story they would be told to fuck you all off for being terrible friends.

Aside from the fact that 1 had no reason to lie about the bullying, esp considering the school move, 2 is so clearly manipulating you all into excluding 1 and you seem to expect 1 to be sympathetic and collude in her own poor treatment! I'm truly boggled!

Just remember, once someone shows their true colours, take note.

it’s easy to side with friend 2 while you’re not the one she’s turning people against, but don’t think for a minute that you’re immune.

friend 2 sounds like a manipulative bitch, and you are all just as bad. Friend doesn’t need friends like you.