Excluding a friend?

[StephPlum]

In the last few years my friendship group has settled into a nice little group of 5.
We have a WhatsApp that's busy with chat and support and we often get together with or without families. Husbands all get along too.
Before Xmas friend 1 told friend 2 that she's moving her child to a new school because of bullying that friend 2's child was involved in. Friend 1 insisted she didn't want to fall out, but friend 2 was upset, said it was all liesbso they had words and friend 1 left the WhatsApp.
Friend 1 has kept in touch with everyone except friend 2. When sending invites to stuff friend 1 includes everyone (Inc. Friend 2, who won't join in).
Friend 2 won't join anything that friend 1 is involved in. So we've had a few get together with just friend 2.
Friend 1 found out about this and is really upset. She thinks they should both be included in everything, and that we are actually preventing a reconciliation by enabling friend 2 to just leave her out. She left the WhatsApp group herself but is now feeling excluded.
If we didn't do anything with friend 2 separately she wouldn't see any of us.
Aibu to leave out friend 1 sometimes?

Well invite her then. She's probably just being tactful, and much good it's done her - the hostilities against her continue!

@StephPlum are you generally a peacemaker? Do you find conflict difficult? I think maybe you are instinctively wanting the path to least resistance, and as DF2 is still at the school your child attends and is very upset, you think it would have been better if DF1 hadn't rocked the boat.

I would suggest you take a step back and think of the things people have said to you upthread. Why on earth would a parent move their child in year 6? Why would the school have agreed to make changes so that the children were distanced? What on earth would DF1 be gaining from leaving the school where her friends take their children, and isolating her DC? It just isn't realistically likely that it was all made up.

That brings you to DF2. Why would it be in her interests to deny that her child was involved in bullying? What would she gain? What did she do differently in the situation? It is far more likely that she would think that she would lose your friendships if she acknowledged that her child had been unkind.

The saddest thing is, that if she had admitted it, it sounds like DF1 would have been magnanimous and it would have all blown over.

OP, I do not think you should have posted here for advice. I do not think that any of this is helpful.

I've a DC that has been the subject of bullying. Leaving DC out, asking DC to play then running away from DC, deliberately excluding DC and isolating DC from other kids in the class where DC has had nobody to play with.

I know the mum well, however they believe their DC is sweet and innocent and wouldn't believe their child would be involved in anything like that so I haven't approached the parent, I tried gently previously and it was shot down as their DC denied it. They are very PFB about their DC.

So I've tried to go via the school, trying not to make a big thing out of it, I've tried to see if giving them time apart would help heal the rift, if encouragement of different friends and interests and starting my DC at clubs outside school so they can meet friends there.

I can tell you it's absolutely heartbreaking every day, my child coming home to tell me they were excluded or lonely again in school. Having them cry at bedtime because they are worried about the next day at school.

So friend 1 has my absolute sympathy. I'm at my whits end, I know approaching the other parent won't end well (I'm not sure I trust myself to be as unemotional about it as i once could have been) and school have/are trying all they can so if friend 1 has gotten to the point of moving her child school she must have really exhausted all other options. I suspect the reason she hasn't approached friend 2 before now is because she knew this is the response she would get and was trying her best to preserve some sort of friendship.

But somehow you're painting friend 2 as the victim and the wronged party here and friend 2 seems to be lapping up that role.

I was friend 1 many years ago. Friend 2s dd and my dd were really close until a the dd couldn't manipulate my child so made up lies about her and her mums reaction affected our friendship group. Friend would act distraught if she found out my dd and myself mixed with friends and their kids. Ended up my poor dd having to move on from this group and for me I had to do the same. The friend eventually was seen to be the dramatic witch she was but too late as the damage was done. Don't let this happen to friend 1.

Sounds like friend 2 is doubling down.

Her kid has probably been bullying Friend 1’s kid. On one level friend 2 is ashamed and embarrassed and probably sees it as a judgement on her parenting. Rather than face these difficult feelings, it’s easier to blame someone else. So she’s doubling down and playing the victim.

Friend 1 has been reasonable because she doesn’t have a guilty conscience. People don’t move their kids without good reason.

Friend 2 needs to be told that she needs to get over it. From now on, all invitations go to everyone.

Listen, I agree with what others are saying about you have sided with friend 2. In fact, I'm almost wondering if you are friend 2, because you seem oblivious to how much you are siding with them.

But taking it at face value , I described upthread how I've been bullied by an ex-friend. Do you know what really hurts the most?
The people who try and pretend to be both friends. The ones who say "you know we have to be kind, so we'll pretend person 2 hasn't done anything wrong." "We can't possibly call them out because they might be upset". Because actually by "being kind" to the bully and telling them not to worry they can't possibly have done anything wrong, actually isn't being kind to me. It's enabling the bullying and calling me a liar. And it's exactly because of those people that it has been allowed to continue.
I am confident that if one or two of those people had stepped out and said "I am not letting it continue, you are the issue" then friend 2 would have backed down.

You've heard the expression "For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing"?
That's exactly what it is. You are allowing the situation to continue bullying friend 1 because you are doing nothing.
There isn't a neutral stance here. You are either supporting friend 1 or you are supporting friend 2.

Because friend 2 is refusing to have anything to do with friend 1, that is why there isn't a neutral stance. Friend 2 is the one causing it, and is manipulating you into excluding friend 1.

Just to respond to your earlier post about feeling sorry for friend 2 for having fewer friends...

I can totally see why she has fewer friends. She is unnecessary drama personified.

Oh right. So you don’t think it might be a kind and welcoming gesture to do that then?

I’m confused.you seem to accept that something was going on between the children and F1 has acted to protect their child from (what certainly sounds like) bullying. She told F2 but continued to invite her along to maintain the social group. You think this was wrong? You would rather she kept it to herself and put on a front? What kind of friendship group is this? Wouldn’t it make more sense for F2 to acknowledge the problem and seek to support her child and friend? It sounds like there’s still a lot of growing up to do and if I was F1 I’d be leaving the group - with a bad taste in my mouth.

It would create more drama with f2

Tough

It would show you’re not taking sides!

Oh boo hoo. Interesting that you haven’t thought to set up a group with friend 1 and the others, excluding friend 2. You know, to make it fair.

Ok, I’m out - this is a waste of time.

You’ve chosen your side.

It’s the wrong side, btw.

So I did set up a group with everyone for an event we had all together. F1 posted on it a couple times. Then f2 left that group and now no one uses it. Chat on the original group continues as usual. We do try and shut down any chat from f2 about f1 but I also feel like we should support her as she is finding this difficult.
I still see f1 a couple of times a week at a class we do together and I know she chats to the others 1:1. We all make an effort to be at anything f1 invites us too.
I do feel like we've been trying to be fair, but clearly we've upset her when she saw us out without her and you're all helping me understand that.

I was really surprised that f1 was so upset. We've all kept in touch 1:1 and a few group events since the blow up.
F1 definitely seemed to be dealing with it well. She didn't talk about it much and her social media shows her out and about with her other friends and she seemed OK

@StephPlum what has F2 got to be upset about though? What is she finding hard? She is still on the WhatsApp group. She is still invited to things. She still has her child in the same school....the only thing that has changed is that DF1 said her child was involved in bullying of her child, and is willing to move past it in your social circles.

What else could DF1 do?? She can't just stay at home, waiting for the situation to change. She had a choice to make and she chose her child.

We do try and shut down any chat from f2 about f1 but I also feel like we should support her as she is finding this difficult.

But she's making it difficult for herself! If my child had been accused of bullying to the extent the other child's parents had to move them to a new school I would be mortified. I wouldn't be corralling our friendship group to exclude the bullied child's mother. I mean, you do see how the same thing is happening to the mum that's happened to her DC, and you're all part of it?

Boo fucking hoo for Friend 2. She has a child who bullied another child badly enough to make them move schools. She should rightfully be feeling upset about that. She's not though, is she? She's angry at the person who dared to flag it.

If I were Friend 1 I'd be beyond disappointed in all of you.

Friend 2 sounds awful.

You sound like an absolute coward.

I feel terrible for Friend 1. She's the only one who can hold her head high in this toxic mess.

Yes I'm starting to feel the same. No one that is a genuine parent is this clueless re bullying and how to respond.

If true, why friend 1 still wants to be friends with you all, and you in particular is beyond me. She is better off without you all.

She feels sad that she's lost her friend (f1) and angry that her child has been accused.
I can see that she is not being totally reasonable but I am her friend and still want to support her

I want to support f1 too and see that I need to do better there. I'm just struggling to do that without upsetting f2. Clearly I've not done well as f1 is now upset.

I do wish they'd sort it between them! F2 is organising most of the things we've done without f1 and I don't want to say no anymore than I'd say no to f1.

I do see though now how it looks like I'm siding with f2. I've just not wanted to upset anyone but I think maybe f1 has made it a bit easier than f2