Please can someone say what labours manifesto is?

[Gymnoob]

Hi,

Looks like no choice but to vote labour this time. No idea what they actually stand for. I have listened to Kier and various things still none the wiser. I don’t know whether this is because they have less air time as the opposition or something else.

If anyone can sum up very briefly the 3 main policies or changes they will make.

To do the conservative comparison I would have said they wanted to;
Lower taxes (and plunge the £ into panic)
‘Fix’ the nhs
Have an odd obsession with sending everyone to Rwanda

But I can’t make a comparison for labour because no idea!

Thank you

@pointythings you are kind of proving my point that some seem to think Labour can do no wronmg and Tories can do no right. In reality, they are both a mix of the two.
Can I ask though, had the Tories taken us to war, would Labour supporters accept the nuance that some Tory MPs had voted against it? And had Rishi Sunak been DPP when the decision had been made not to prosecute Jimmy Saville, Labour supporters would accept that he did not make the actual decision? Of course they wouldn't, they would be baying for blood.

@Katypp you seem to be implying that the Tories are held to a higher standard than Labour. Pardon me while I roll on the floor laughing.

Also there's no such thing as 'Labour supporters'. They're a pretty diverse lot. (I say 'they' because I have no vote in general elections and tend to vote Independent locally because our independents are great).

Whereas anyone who still supports the Tories and intends to vote for them after the past 14 years... isn't. (I don't count among those people the Tory voters who intend to stay at home).

You can roll on the floor as much as you want with my blessing.
The fact is though that (they do exist) Labour supporters do hold the Tories to higher account than their party as they are seemingly incapable of judging anything on its merits, just a blanket 'the Tories are awful Labour is better' rhetoric.
You haven't answered my questions by the way about the Gulf war and Starmer. Do you honestly think that Labour supporters would be Ok with the Tories taking us to war because some MPs voted against it and that Starmer would not be criticised for letting Saville continue under his watch?

I lived through changes of goverment recently, Cameron to May, May's government to Johnsons. Now Sunaks. Not much changed despite all the excitement in some quarters.

The Starmer/Savile situation has been explained exhaustively on these threads. If you're still using it as a weapon, you haven't been paying attention. A simple Google search will find you all the explainers you need. start with this and follow some links.

I'm sure there are Labour supporters who also supported the Iraq war - that isn't the point though, is it? The point is the wholesale blaming of Labour for the war when the situation was more complex than that.

And yes, there are some Labour supporters who hold the Tories to higher standards than Labour. Of course there are. But overall, and in the media, it's the exact other way round. The latest round of lies from Kemi Badenoch around the Post Office scandal spring to mind - the Tory press are essentially ignoring it, or supporting Badenoch. If a Labour politician was doing all of this, they would be rabid with rage.

Johnson one a landslide in an election against Corbyn. So many people must have thought that Johnson was a good Prime Minister.

More u-turns than a plumbing store.

Bless.

10% is permanent in some people's minds.

Not 10% but Rishi has been very successful in cutting inflation.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/consumerpriceinflation/january2024

Indeed.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363568/Ed-Balls-Yvette-Cooper-face-probe-claiming-14-000-travel-expenses-children.html

And

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/oct/12/tonyblair-labour

He's had very little direct influence on the fall in inflation.

Never mind. You're obviously on a roll now. 🙄

Tony Blair took us into that war, exactly because he wanted to be like the Tories. Starmer is Blair mark 2, so also Tory lite.

Not 10% but Rishi has been very successful in cutting lucky inflation has fallen due to factors outside his control

Fixed that for you.

Not 10% but Rishi has been very successful in cutting inflation.

Well, all he had to do was sit on his hands and wait for it to happen. You might as well agree that I have been very successful in cutting inflation, because I did exactly what he did to achieve a fall - nothing.

Is that the same for inflation on the way up?

The posters I am thinking about seem to think at a stroke waiting lists will disappear, the NHS will suddenly become better run, crime will go down, schools will become educational utopias in fantastic buildings, private landlords will disperse into thin air, there will be a house for everyone who needs one, and everyone will be happy ever after until the nasty Tories win the next election

I haven't seen a single poster on this thread who has said they think this, or on any of the political threads.

@EasternStandard more than likely. But then I don't blame the Tories for high inflation - much of it was beyond their control. What I do blame them for is:

• taking the credit for its fall
• claiming to be 'generous' by raising benefits by a % lower than food inflation, which disproportionately affects the poorest and most vulnerable in the UK

Inflation has also been slower to come down in the UK compared to the US, Germany and France, again to some extent due to factors beyond government control (such as the need for imported food). However, some of the factors (i.e. worker shortages) have absolutely been within the government's control, and their actions have done nothing to ameliorate the problem. Quite the reverse, in fact.

Would you say the same if this happened under a Labour government? You would not. You would credit Starmer for bringing down inflation without a doubt. However, inflation in the first place would be out of his control I imagine.
Not really interested on getting into an argument as you don't want to hear another point of view.
I originally came on to say that those expecting miracles if a new Labour Government comes to power ate going to be solely disappointed and I stand by that

I originally came on to say that those expecting miracles if a new Labour Government comes to power ate going to be solely disappointed and I stand by that

Nobody expects that, so it is a moot point.

There are likely some decisions which aided a fall rather than the reverse. It’s not all a one way thing. Workers well there was that bumper immigration which got the backlash

On the benefits is your expectation that Labour will increase them generally?

@EasternStandard I think Labour's focus should be on the NHS - reform is needed, but so is funding in order to stop the brain drain of skilled staff. Improve the NHS, improve the health of the nation, reduce the amount of sickness benefits going out. Borrowing to invest will definitely be required to patch the damage done by a decade and more of neglect - things like Sure Start need to be restored because an ounce of prevention really is worth a pound of cure. I'd hope for some sort of rapprochement with the EU, though that will take far longer than one Parliament - sadly, the Brexit headbangers are still not willing to accept that it was a great experiment in failure.

Most of all I'd like to see things undone: the idiotic idea of not letting valuable workers bring their families, the loosening of environmental legislation including the use of neonicotinoids, the Rwanda policy has got to go and be replaced by something sensible.

I'd also like Labour to expedite the implementation of the law on buffer zones for protests at abortion clinics - that's an easy win.

And no, I'm not hoping for miracles. The damage done by austerity, Brexit, the corruption associated with COVID and the focus on the hostile environment are going to need lots of work.

Oh, and I forgot to add: roll back the restrictions on protests and strikes. Bringing back the freedoms the Tories took away from us would be great.

That's what populism does. See also Trump. Large swathes of the electorate favour a character as PM or President over someone who is a bit bland but would probably do a decent job. And no, I wasn't a fan of Corbyn but yes, he would have been preferable to a man with no moral compass and appalling political prowess.

I stand by my previous post that what is needed is a change of 'vibe and intention' do I think that Labour are going to create miracles or a silk purse out of a sows ear- absolutely not - however I don't think they will set about making things even shitter almost deliberately for vast swathes of people. Unless you are seriously wealthy the Tory's have created a country in decline if you can't pay separately for stuff all the time, be that education, health or dentistry - which is fine if that's what your ethos is but be honest about it. They have also brought in many things I don't actually agree with because of their 'can't be arsed attitude' - immigration levels are ridiculous but are there mainly because of gaps in certain sectors due to Brexit- I note they didn't market the fact at the referendum they would be bringing in vast amounts of workers and their families from developing country's ( they are now changing rules but it's a bit late) I'm not anti immigration but all seems very pointless to being in the EU and having many more younger single people not needing so much in the way of housing, education and health- I am also anti the fact that child support payments are ignored when it comes to UC- I know several people who get UC and very high amounts (over £700) of regular child support too and hence now can't be arsed to work and aren't being hassled to do so either - I can only conclude this was because they couldn't be arsed or didn't have the staff to actually monitor this. I don't think it's fair on others who don't have that level of support financially or are struggling to work or pay for childcare etc on almost identical incomes.

I am fed up of a bunch of braying posh berks and at the other end national front type ignorant arses running the country