AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

Fair enough. I don't want to get into either abnormal psychology or philosophy here but the question is, how visible is that generosity since you're already using a superlative? Then it becomes a question of whether or not generosity that earns you brownie points is really altruistic and whether that has long-term effects that lead to more perks.

There's a lot of invisible generosity by people who can't afford being generous but do so regardless every single day because it is part of their values.

I wonder if the son was actually informed about the extent of their savings for him off the back of being upset because he didn’t learn to drive like his friends or something like that…

No, people don’t.
they’re apparently angry that the “poor couple” had a different financial strategy and didn’t spend as much as they did.

if this was about “wasting their charity” they’d be angry about the rugby. They wouldn’t be angry about the holiday budget!

I agree that it sounds like people on here don't even understand what saving is. It's disturbing how some people are saying what's a couple of thousand pounds here and there, well d'uh it all adds up. And the reference to not redecorating the children's bedroom, talk about an absolute waste of money.

I agree with others that the frugal couple are in the right.

They've made an agreement of a budget and they have worked hard to stick to that and they've done it to try and secure some generational wealth for their children at their own sacrifice.

This all comes down to choices. They were clear with you all about their budget. It's not for anyone else to tell them if that budget is reasonable or not it's their money. You all decided you were happy to go along with their budget when you could have decided to do something different or not invite them or do your own thing etc. So now your friends are begrudging because they feel the budget was tighter than it needed to be.

That's unreasonable because it's not for them to say. There is such a thing as being wealthy but being cash poor and personally I admire them for being so determined and motivated to secure their kids futures.

Did they ask for help re:rugby camp or was this offered or did you as a group tell them that you all went ahead and paid this? Because that's a big factor in knowing how cf that was.

If you wanted to go and stay somewhere really posh sometimes you could’ve done so and they could have decided whether or not to go.

That’s a really shitty thing to do to friends, though! They’re an established group - it’s awful to do something that they think everyone would like to join in but just don’t have the funds to do it.

My DH has a group of friends - they’re all very affluent except one guy. They meet up most weeks for a walk and a meal; there’s an unwritten rule that they go somewhere cheap and cheerful so that it’s not an onerous expense for the chap who has a lot less money. Sure - they could say “we’re off to the Michelin starred restaurant next week and you don’t have to come if you don’t want to”. But that’s a rotten thing to do to a mate.

I don't think you need to feel sorry for the saving couples kids, I'm sure they'll be very happy in the future 😆🙄

A PP mentioned how much have this family benefitted from the hospitality of others in the group as the assumption was they can’t afford to do certain things.

I’m wondering if the kids of frugal couple are now also benefitting? OP mentioned there are no driving lessons, are other kids in the group driving and giving lifts to frugal kids, are frugal kids buying their rounds in the pub?

Now everyone knows you can’t unsee all these things.

What I find most staggering is the OP and her friends (based on info here) went along with 18 years of shit holidays. Cheap holiday lets in the UK, where nobody objected?

Not getting a takeout coffee for fear of offending/shaming the savings couple?

I would put up with this a maximum of 3 times before I said nah, not for me thanks. There is literally no-one who could dictate how I holiday and spend my leisure time, or impose their frugality on me and my family.

My opinion on the savings couple is that they suited themselves regardless.

I don't believe the upset from other friends is jealousy, but rather hurt over being fooled for 18 years. The trust is broken as is the friendship I imagine.

YABVU, besides the one incident regarding the rugby club which wasn't fair, you have no right to dictate their budget and whether they should have squandered more money on holidays or going out for coffee.

They had a financial goal and they cut their cloth accordingly. I think it's disgusting behaviour of your friends to cut them off because you all were not as money savvy as them.

The rugby camp thing would definitely annoy me, that was unreasonable of them to accept you paying for it, however the rest I don't think is any of your business and not unreasonable on their part.

I have a lot less money than they do, and by the sounds of it the rest of the group, however I operate my finances in a similar way to this couple - I have a small amount available for holidays, activities etc and then I have savings. I don't count the savings as as spare money. So if my friendship group are planning something and I don't have the spare activity money, I will say I can't afford it currently.
Some of my friends don't save at all and therefore have more disposable income and will regularly get hot drinks and snacks if we are out, whilst I usually bring ours along. Whilst I appreciate that might feel uncomfortable for them, I see that as being their decision and their own emotions to deal with.
It's kind that you were all so considerate of them over the years, but that was your choice.

@Newhorizons8 they cut them off for lying. I would have done so too.

It’s all underhanded. People say it’s none of your business. These were close friends. You shared a large portion of your lives together and they turned out to be different to the people they presented as. I have friends who I know to be very wealthy, who will always look for free toys on FB marketplace, or simply ask if anyone has any items they want for free. It does annoy me as they are taking those items from those who need it. It’s morally wrong.

Same as your friends; they were playing a different game of life to you. I hope it was all worth it for them but sadly this is a lesson in ‘money doesn’t bring happiness’. Assuming mass wealth in this way doesn’t teach their children about managing money at all. It’s not very savvy at all. And now their children have found themselves in a situation where they are stuck in the middle of a falling out as a result.

The narrative was ‘we’re broke’ where in actual fact it was ‘we don’t want to spend’ is very different.

I’d feel lied to and mislead! It’s one thing if they said it was a deliberate choice, and you could then give them the choice of joining I our not but completely another thing for them to let you think they were poor and feel sorry for them!
And paying for the son’s rugby camp? Tight fuckers.
From now on I would do what you want to do - with no consideration whatsoever for their opinion and if they want to come they can. But the next time one of them says they can’t afford a coffee or to buy a round would be the last time I included them.

You all made compromise in your lives so you could include this couple. If they'd been honest you could have sometimes made different choices, made informed choices with all the information. There is loss here, the loss of the different choices you all would have made if fully informed. They lied at least by omission, and that effected the choices their friends made. There is a difference between knowingly choosing to forgo something with the full information and missing out on something and realising later that the people you spent years making compromises for lied to you about the necessity behind those compromises.

I think I’d be on the fence too. I think it’s just the slight the deceit of it all so you all had to change your preferences. But maybe no one actually said they’d like a bit more of a luxurious holiday?? If one of you had they could have decided to save and go every other year on a holiday the rest of the group would prefer. But it’s too late now!
However, for the sake of the poor lad who spilled the beans I’d really try and make this work. He must be feeling enormous guilt. Everyone should just see they made what they thought were reasonable priorities for the sake of their children and that was their decision and admirable to be honest! I’ve never heard of anyone going to such extremes but maybe we all wished we’d put some more aside as our kids struggle to ever get on the property ladder etc. Maybe there’s a bit of jealousy from the other members of the group?
I keep coming back to thinking of the poor lad and you can’t let this end like this as he will feel forever awful.

Yeah we do the same with my DH’s colleague and his wife. Tbh, we’ve had some pretty awful meals for the sake of a few pound more per meal (they’ll always pick the cheapest chain rather than somewhere a little bit more expensive we suggest, trying to be accommodating) and I’ve gone home feeling a bit annoyed - especially when dieting and my only dinner out in a while was a disappointment. I would definitely be annoyed if the same happened with holidays. I’ve stayed in a grotty hotel as a student and it was misersble - couldn’t wait to come home. Sounds like a really close knit group so I can see why the others didn’t say “We’re going somewhere upmarket.” But of course the reason for the breakdown in the friendship is the rugby thing - surely.

I saw this thread last night and thought it was one of the weirdest I've seen on MN, and that's saying something.

A few more reasonable voices now have posted I'm glad to see.

It is no-one else's business how this family have chosen to manage their finances and their priorities!

None of my friends would be rude enough to ask how much we save for our kids/ invest in our pensions - which has a massive impact on our day to day spending.

Just as I'm shocked at the amounts some of my friends spend on new stuff and holidays for their kids, but I would never be so rude as to mention it. As for regularly redecorating the kids' bedrooms, WTF? My kids rooms have been the same for the last 19 years since we moved house.

The point is, it genuinely wasn't one or the other.

Driving lessons and a couple of sports clubs would not have eaten far into the savings and would have shown a less extreme approach at the kids' expense growing up.

Obviously people do not need any extras. Food, shelter, water, clothing, state education will cover it but they have shown an odd approach rather obsessed with a financial end point rather than holistically and longitudinally wanting better for their kids than they had.

Yes, great to save and be careful with money. No, I wouldn't mind having 850k in the bank. But to completely veto any opportunities the kids may have benefited from or enjoyed growing up that would really not have made a substantial difference to such a large amount? Extreme views and obsessions aren't usually attractive in friends.

There is more to this in my view than 'people are jealous and don't understand saving'. There are some really reductivist views on here.

Where is their money invested is it easily accessible or is it in high interest accounts where you get penalised for making withdrawals? were they topping up the kids Child Trust Funds - where you actually can't access the funds until your child turns 18?

Also it's none of your business! £20 in 18 years is nothing, you could have gone skiing every year if it was that important to group. You all just didn't want to until now.

£850k divided by 2 children really isn't much for a house and university fees each.

You all sound really jealous that you didn't think to save for your kids!

But that isn’t the issue here.
OP’s friends aren’t upset about the children’s lack of extracurricular activities. They’re upset about the “poor couple’s” holiday budget!

This thread really stayed with me overnight and two things occurred to me. First reading the rugby thing really tipped it into unreasonable for me - but then I read the post that said the cost came up when the couple in question had a lot of unexpected expenses, the rich dad just did it when he was paying for his sons (so does not sound like he was asked to), and the other dad bought his beers on a few nights out. So it is very possible that the 'poor' dad more than paid back the £100. That is not very many beers around here.

The second thing is the pressure people put on others to spend. If this couple said 'our budget is this because we are saving' how much pressure would be put on to spend more. Whereas saying 'we cant afford it' is both true from their perspective and stops the pressure.

£850k divided by 2 children really isn't much for a house and university fees each.

😂

While I agree that with inflation, university fees and the housing market it won’t get you quite a far today, I had to laugh at £850,000 (nearly a million pounds) and “really isn’t much” in the same sentence.

I've responded to that in another message, I'm ts qu it re an interesting OP. This was about that particular post

Argh it's quite an interesting OP*