AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

I agree.

I also don’t think they’ve “hack” to give their kids an amazing start in life. They’ve given them a ton a of money and a ton of issues.

Of everything you mentioned, the only CF move is letting others pay for the rugby club (and possibly talking about 'struggling', depending on their tone and whether this prompted others to treat/subsidise them). I think in general chat people often do talk about budget differently and say they're broke when they mean they don't have anything left in their 'fun' budget. They should have refused to let a friend cover a cost they could afford themselves but had chosen not to prioritise.
I have a few friends doing similar to this couple, but the difference is they've been super open with us about their earnings and savings decisions. We tend to do budget options together. I've also had a couple of occasions where I've told friends something isn't in my budget and they've kindly offered to cover my cost - if I actually do have the money but can't justify spending my own on the specific activity, I'd never justify accepting it from a friend either.
The holidays seems like the bigger issue to you, but the fact is you all chose a budget together, and everyone involved had every right to set that max budget at their preferred level, just like everyone presumably had the option to choose a different accommodation for themselves if they preferred. Your friends are saying £1-2k a year extra on holidays would have made no difference to the fund, but saving on that level is a huge mindset thing and if it's not what they would have chosen to splash an extra £1-2k on, that's fair enough.

They purposefully piggybacked onto a group dynamic that would advantage both their children and themselves and misled - lied to the group for nearly two decades.

I hope everyone distances themselves. A great set of close and supportive friends are worth more than the money - as they will soon discover when life throws a curveball as it tends to in middle age.

I would have them down as graspers.

I also find it so strange that not telling your friends your financial situation, what you save, how you prioritise etc is seen as lying. It’s just keeping things private that really aren’t anyone else’s business.

These two aren't ‘hackers’. They’re users. So no, unlike some people here who commend them for saving the money, all they’re done is cause damage to the group and likely cause damage to their kids futures and wellbeing. But they probably don’t care, because all they give a shit about is money and are the types to have had very few - if any - friends in their younger days.

Basically your friends took the easy option of not disclosing their financial position as they didn't want to be guilted or pressurised into spending more on group holidays/activities than they wanted to. It saved them a shitload of hassle.

It sounds like their son is the one to suffer for their choice. Therefore the others in the group should probably stop judging. It doesn’t sound like they had access to the other income until now anyway. From where I’m standing they have been quite clever with their money for their children’s sake. But have improvised their and their children’s lifestyle for the last 18years. I wouldn’t want my children to have such a huge help in life tbh. They need to learn to fund themselves to an extent. They could have been more honest from the start and there wouldn’t be this issue now. They shouldn’t have let others pay for things for their children either. But it’s no one else’s business but theirs.

I’ve said I thought they behaved a bit dishonestly but rereading OPs comments it’s still somewhat unclear to what extent they really did “plead poverty” over the years - as opposed to just operating according to their own preferred budget. Simply moaning about tight finances and a big mortgage wouldn’t be misleading or “pleading poverty” in and of itself.

To put it bluntly, the degree to which they were dishonest - if at all - really depends on EXACTLY the language they used when plans were being made/money being spent. As opposed to the group early on simply labelling them (conssciojsly or unconsciously) as “the poor family that we need to consider and make sacrifices for”.

Saying “we can’t afford expensive holidays/fancy restaurants” isn’t the same as saying “we haven’t got any assets/savings”.

And I think while you could argue that they were perhaps a little guilty of deceivign by omission - I’d equally place some responsibility on the other parents. If the cheap accommodations and locations were getting a bit repetitive while the hell did they never in 10,11,12, 18 (?) years say “how about we just go on a family holiday to Disneyland (or whatever) this year instead?”.

I don’t think it is petty to blame their lies about being too poor to afford anything other than dangerous holiday accommodation that has scarred your dd for life

The dc aren’t acting more mature. They just realise that their friends have never lied to them and have suffered because of their parents insistence that they couldn’t have anything because they were broke.

I don’t think this will end well for either the parents or the children

I’d be annoyed. Firstly that you subsidised their child when they had plenty of money in the bank, and that they’ve lied all these years.

It’s not hard to say, we’re saving for the kids to go to Uni/house deposits so we’re trying to run on one income.

Yes it’s their money to do with as they wish, but pleading poverty when that’s not the case, is not on. I get that you still want to be friends but, I’d struggle after being lied to for that length of time.

Your friends are saying £1-2k a year extra on holidays would have made no difference to the fund, but saving on that level is a huge mindset thing and if it's not what they would have chosen to splash an extra £1-2k on, that's fair enough.

And I completely agree with this - but surely the point is that by giving the impression that “they couldn’t afford it” rather than “didn’t want to spend their money that way”, the other friends didn’t think it was “fair enough” to go and do something else without them. Whereas, had they known, they’d have made a different choice.

This is a large-ish group who have been doing things together for a long time. It would be really shitty effectively to exclude someone on the grounds of financial hardship from something that they usually do. It’s not how friends behave; the friendship is more important than the luxury. But the saving couple have massively taken advantage of this good nature. Because - had they said - “ah, you go ahead without us, we’re saving money at the moment”, the others might well have felt okay to make a different decision which didn’t include them.

I would also be put off by the single mindedness about money and building generational wealth rather than improving their kids lives in the round compared to their own upbringings.

That's not to say buying them polo ponies or a Lamborghini each but certainly a few experiences, even if with social capital rather than genuine enjoyment in mind, developing their sporting talent even if making them only choose one sport and driving lessons as it's so much easier to learn young.

The money side is not your business, no, and like you say it isn't abuse but I would find the kids missing out when they could have had a bit extra throughout ickier than any of the manipulation of the adults.

The whole picture of them money obsessed to the point of dishonesty and joylessness(even if acting fun when making sure to keep friends) then agreeing to keep it quiet is quite weaselly and unpleasant.

I’m not sure being mortgage free in their mid-20s is going to harm their future/wellbeing. As for any lingering awkwardness with their friendship group, most kids have mostly moved on in that regard by the time they leave university anyway, plus none of it was their decision so any lingering resentment would be misplaced.

You can’t say the sacrifices they made are not necessary because you would have made different choices. They are allowed to have different financial priorities and values.

I find it really shocking how little respect people have for saving on this thread. This couple didn’t lie to their friends. The OP seems to clearly know exactly how much the couple made. The couple were clear what their budget was for doing things based on their financial priorities and they were good enough company to have around that everyone wanted to accommodate that.

The idea that it would have been okay to be in the same budget of they’d taken out a huge mortgage debt that left them skint but not okay if it’s because they were saving for their kids futures just shows a lack of respect for their ability to have different financial values and goals.

It also sounds like the Rugby was a case of someone else in the group wanting their kids to go and knowing they’d say ‘no’ so just paying without asking them. You can’t do that and then expect to be paid back! You can’t force people to spend money they don’t want to spend because you disagree with their financial priorities!

Unless you were all being asked to pay for things I don’t think your ‘rich’ friends have done anything wrong. All of your other friends kids may have a financial safety net via grandparents and inheritance that doesn’t exist for these people that changes their financial priorities

Because if the family had said “we just don’t want to spend our money on posh holidays” then the OP would be on here complaining about being judged for wanting to spend money on stuff and the friendship would have dwindled after 18 months. Instead they’ve all had the best part of 20 years of good times - or at leas they weren’t so bad that anyone else felt the need to do things differently.

The 18 year old will be just fiiiine. PMSL at the people saying he’s had an impoverished childhood because his parents didn’t teach him to drive, he’s got 850k in the bank. And I guarantee some of the other kids will be asking their parents where their nest egg is and wondering if going to the theatre and Pizza Express beats being set up for life.

I think the issue here is that you all feel slightly foolish over some of the assumptions you have made and have continued to make over 18 years.

you say she earns between £50-70k per year and he earns more however also say the kids do no activities and they don’t decorate the house etc.

so where did you think all the money was going? I think that because you never examined this too closely (and why would you, it’s not your business), that you now feel blindsided by the truth.

you have said a lot how much you enjoy their company, that’s what matters here. I think the wider groups are feeling embarrassed by this revelation but that’s not on the poor couple at all.

What about the rest of the group subsidising this couple's son going to a sports camp? And the boy's parents let their friends do this, knowing that they had the money themselves? Pretty disgusting behaviour, I'd say - and very much the OP's business - some of it was her money!

If this is true, then it doesn't say much for the parents.

A ton of issues? Because their parents grew up poor and so were frugal? As much fun as combined family holidays can be, if the other families were year on year compromising their own kids comfort and enjoyment just to keep the happy friends party atmosphere going for over a decade when they could have gone on a few more comfortable/ adventurous “our family only” holidays like 90% of families do, that’s kind of on them.

Out of curiosity do you know the salaries, savings, investments and pension funds of all the couples in the group?
Do all the couples produce a spreadsheet for the group in the group WhatsApp.

If this information isn't in the public domain does that mean the rest of the group is dishonest too.

It is a shame about the DD who had the accident. Sadly. even more expensive holiday accomodation isn't always well maintained. Found this out recently at a weekend away with the girls. One sat on the posh 4 poster bed and it collapsed! She is 7stone. Her 50th birthday she got the posh room. The cooker didn't work and the electrics kept tripping.

It kind of reminds me of when you get old people who let their family run around making things good for them, not getting a carer or cleaner in as they say they can't afford it and taking them out and paying for stuff on the implied assumption that they are 'only on a pension' (something that is often said too' and then leave vast sums of money. Yes it's slightly different as the family probably benefit- but the deception and the fact you have been dancing to their tune and inconveniencing yourself based on a lie is hard to get past.

It would be very interesting to get the other side of the story. “We were tricked” vs “No, we told you our budget for socialising - which weve all enjoyed and happily done for many years. Incorrect Assumptions you made about our wider finances are not on us”.

This . It was cheeky fuckerish of them . They are not teaching their children to stand in their own two feet though . I think they are storing up problems for the future because those kids will tap them time and time again for money .

Did you read all the OP’s posts? They haven’t even given their kids driving lessons and missed out on pursuing their talents. It’s not just slightly more comfortable holidays. I feel really sorry for saving couple’s kids.

I'd also like the other couple to understand where we were coming from. I think there was so much financial instability in their early lives that a house, food, uniform that fits is seen as "making it". In reality their kids haven't ever been on a school holiday, don't have passports, aren't being taught to drive, did no after school sports training despite being talented, haven't had their bedrooms refurbished since they moved in.... none of this is abusive in any way, and they are loving parents and the kids are fine, but it is a bit sad and a shame as it's not all necessary.

Who researched and booked these holidays? Because if it wasn’t the ‘poor couple’ that’s very unfair. It takes a long time to find cheaper holiday accommodation and then go through all the reviews to check it’s ok, maybe looking at multiple booking sites to see where you can save more money. If you have a bit more to spend you can save so much time and if other people were spending ages trying to find cheaper options to suit their budget while they were saving her entire wage that’s unfair.

TBH, I don't really think they've done anything massively wrong.

If you can only think of one example in 18 years of them "sponging" (the rugby camp), then I don't think they've gone out of they way to sponge for all that time. They told the group their budget, which they're perfectly entitled to set, and everyone happily went along with it.
If all the other families hadn't been happy to continue doing Butlins, when they really wanted to be doing south of France, then this family would have been dropped from the group years and years ago. You all kept doing these holidays because presumably you wanted to enjoy the company of your friends, and the destination wasn't really much of a factor.

There's probably some jealousy at play as well, which no one will admit.