AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

Did they actually "lie" though? I can "afford" to buy caviar for a week (I expect) or buy some £5k handbags. I won't, because I consider that I need that money for more important things. Saying what you can "afford" is down to your perception of what you think is important to spend on.

The fact they didn't even spend on their kids' clubs or anything else suggests they really do see "we can't afford it" and are walking the walk as well as talking it. (I agree their priorities are skewed and extreme).

@User3353235 · Yesterday 16:55

Judging other people and making friendships conditional based on someone's "true" financial background is really tacky and depressing tbh. Regardless of whether they have too much money, too little money, or weren't transparent with their finances, who cares?? You are friends with people because of their personality and what they bring to your life. It doesn't sound like they set out to scam or con anyone. They may have misled people into believing their financial circumstances were different but the actions taken as a result of this was entirely your own. You are not obligated to pay for anyone upfront just because they complained they were skint.

Exactly.

Why?

Well it ‘feels’ deceitful, they obviously didn’t just pile it into a savings account, they must have invested it and know what they are doing.
With some honesty in the beginning, maybe the rest of the group could have done something similar (the mild version) and also have something invested for their children now.

Apart from the rugby thing, no one has to justify why they have a budget for something. No one has to say 'well Im saving', its no one elses business

You either accept someones budget and include them or say no thanks, I want this holiday and dont include them, no one is obliged. And dont pay for things for other people's kids.

This is perfect journalism for the sun or the daily mail.

@Parentingistoughas I think your use of the word "priorities" is bang on here and a bit of an unlock for me. It's clear that the people in this friendship group had different priorities, and it would have probably helped if the couple had said, "holidays aren't a financial priority for us, so our budget is only £x". A very useful word.

It's not an easy thing to say, though, because it involves making it very plain and clear that this is about choices and choices that don't put your friendship group at the top of the priorities list. That's valid, but it is still hard to admit if you care about what other people think.

It's also not an easy thing to hear, and really what this whole thread is about is OP finding out that she and her other friends weren't a financial priority for this couple. Her reaction is the sort of thing people fear when wondering whether to admit to their priorities. But arguably the reaction has been made worse by the disclosure of priorities not being made fully and upfront, and only coming to light after nearly two decades.

"You are not obligated to pay for anyone upfront just because they complained they were skint."
But they weren't skint! They lied - friendships built on lies when found out won't last.

@ClumsyNinja

They’re adults, they will have their own family holidays which can be as expensive as they like.

“Wah wah we stayed in gites when we could have been in villas” is peak MN,

They weren’t pretending to be skint either they just had different financial priorities and a set budget for holidays.

Yeah, I don’t think the couple lied at all. I think the other friends delighted in playing the benevolent superior “wealthier” charity givers.

This is also why I don’t sub/buy anything for anyone other than about 2 people in my life. I don’t know enough about their circumstances and there’s very few people who I don’t care enough about their circumstances to sub regardless.

I always wonder what sort of life these children had and the news that it was all so unnecessary.

Meanness is such a horrible trait

I have a mother who thought only of money. She said she was being frugal.

She was mean and nasty, yet to the outside world she was wonderful and funny and a great laugh.

I wonder in this scenario what these children’s home lives are really like

I’m sorry I do think YABU to fall out with them over this. Their plans to save aren’t really any of their friends’ businesses and clearly their savings for their children were such a priority that they felt they needed to be frugal elsewhere in their lives — and that was their choice. I do not feel they were being disingenuous to say they couldn’t afford luxuries like expensive holidays - in their eyes, they couldn’t as they had other things to prioritise.

I totally agree with this take.

no one has to justify why they have a budget for something. No one has to say 'well Im saving', its no one elses business

They don’t. But - equally - they really shouldn’t claim to be on their uppers (or allow others to think that they’re skint to the point that they’re clearly subsidising them or altering their choices to include them).

There was a thread on here a few weeks ago, entitled “How skint are you right now?”. And it was an interesting read; you had people who literally couldn’t afford to buy groceries until next payday and others saying they were “broke” because they had no spare cash that wasn’t in investments. And the former group, quite understandably, had very little time for the latter lot! As I said upthread, using “we can’t afford it” when what you mean is “that’s not a spending priority for us” can be dishonest in certain situations- and it sounds like the OP’s situation is a pretty big version of this!

The other thing in long standing friendships is that there probably is an expectation that, if someone is much better off than another, that they pick up the bill more often. Not every time, of course - but there are loads and loads of situations where someone just pays - for a couple of coffees, say, where it’s a bit ridiculous to do the “each get our own” thing. And I bet the OP has done that hundreds and hundreds of times - and these friends have stood back and let her. And they shouldn’t have done.

I think it's sad that they didn't spend money on extra curricular activities that would have been beneficial to their DCs when growing up.

The fact that they have squirrelled so much money away - way more than needed for university and house deposits - suggests it's some deep rooted psychological thing emanating from their poorer childhoods.

If you do speak to them openly and frankly about why this has bothered people, it may be worth suggesting they pay back the rugby money with thanks saying they should have done so a long time ago. Which they should. It may feel a bit interfering but it's clearly something that's sticking in be the collective throat.

This is an interesting thread. I simply see it as about being honest to allow others full decision making capacity when they are taking you into account. Same as in a romantic relationship. Others seem to see it as more grudge or jealousy based because they're now well off. I don't think it's that at all.

Of course not - I'm the same. But it gets a bit silly sometimes when certain people like my friend would literally quibble about the last penny being split and then on top about a tip left. And would always want to go to cheaper places or places on a deal, as per Groupon deals.

This friend is now not a friend. Not just for this reason but it didn't help matters. Now when we go out, we do split the bill fairly and equally but even so, one or the other of us will pay a pound or so extra to even it out or one friend who earns a lot more than us, will occasionally treat us to drinks (she admits because she's a high earner, she can afford this). We don't expect this at all of her though. And we are always fair.

I strongly disagree and think you’re wilfully ignoring the obvious issue here.

They deliberately manipulated the rest of the group for more than 18 years to ensure they were included in all the fun activities.

The fact that one person didn’t have the special birthday celebration they really wanted because this couple’s pleadings of poverty dictated the budget, says it all.

If it was only about financial priorities, they could have said at any point, please feel free to go ahead without us, but they didn’t want the others to do things without them, did they?

They’re Nasty manipulative cunts and deserve to be shunned.

@richmanpoorman this is really sad OP. Your friends could have used some of that money to get therapy for themselves to work through their issues and build a healthy relationship with money and balanced future plans. Instead they’ve been deceitful by omission, and put their own long term valuable friendships at risk, and perpetuated unhealthy relationship to money in their kids. For their children, this is a life defining event that has affected relationships with adults that they’ve had since literally when they could hear in the womb. If you still care about them, you could suggest they release some of the money now for therapy for their kids, otherwise the children will probably over compensate the other way, you’ve said the son feels really guilty. There’s probably a lot they’ll come to terms with as they become adults themselves and have kids about how much their parents fears prevented them aligning with their friends, not going to the holiday clubs, not getting that one present they really wanted as a 5yo, they’ll see that not having the £850k doesn’t stop their peers enjoying that with their kids once they have them. I think it’s incredibly sad, generational trauma can cause pain over so many years.

Friendship wise, there’s a reason why people tend to stick to people from same background and families and experiences and I think this story sums it up. From your saving friend’s POV what they did is perfectly reasonable, and from the thread it is to others from severe hardship. But for the other’s, it’s deceit by omission, a lifetime of behaviours driven by this. I think what a poster said about “low level subsidisation” is right. Not just you having them over or treating them, or buying their kids nicer gifts because they usually have to go without, but your own kids as decent people will have made choices about what they do with their friends, used their pocket money etc. I wouldn’t be friends with them and if my kids were younger I’d discourage the friendship, though not much you can do at 18yo because it’s important to me to have family friends and make sure the people who have influence on or caring for my kids share my values. Being miserly isn’t one of them, being generous, sharing and feeding and eating together, being festive is - not tied to money.

I’ll finish by saying again I feel most sorry for saving couple’s their kids. The 18yo would have all grown apart anyway, but now they’ll have this as the conclusion of their lifelong friendships. I also feel sorry for what they missed out on, you can only imagine if that’s how your friends feel about missing out about just another £200, how the kids will see this as they run through adulthood and reflect on their experiences. As you already know, £850k is little replacement for enjoying things with your parents whilst you still can before they are frail and enjoying things in line with your peers.

I think your other friends falling out with the couple are petty and silly.

They have used their money wisley. The saved for a future of their family.

They set their limit for holidays. The group didn't need to agree. Did members of the group have other holidays or only the group holiday every year?

We have a group of old friends that we had annual camping trips with. We lived in various parts of the country.The kids loved It. Personally, I craved a bed and a toilet but being together was the holiday.
The youngsters have continued the tradition.

It sounds like some in the group had been helped by their parents in early life so why shouldn't the couple help their family?
Not all of us need to be materialistic.

I would stay friends with all the couples. If you want to go skiing and enjoy.

I think the rugby payment was very naughty on their part and very kind by the group.
Although maybe they had automatic investments set up and really did live off the one salary. Maybe they should pay you back with interest.

It sounds like the youngsters are more mature about their friendship that your group.

I hope you can all remain friends.

OP
They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life

Whether or not what they did was misleading/dishonest towards their friends, I’m not sure your use of “hack” here is very helpful. Making consistent long term investments at the expense of week to week fun/excitement isn’t a hack - more a calculated sacrifice.

@WimpoleHat exactly this! Its the giving the distinct impression that your are genuinely broke as opposed to making financial choices. No one is saying they didn’t have a right to make different financial priorities, it’s the misleading people that they were very significantly worse off than they actually were which is the issue.

I get the sense from OP that their kids have really missed out on normal life stuff, which is completely understandable if you’re broke. But when you have it by choice sitting in an account, it has a different feel altogether.

I think the only way I could understand this is to imagine that they had genuine real fear and trauma around being in poverty, such that they actually were scared and didn’t feel they had a choice.

One of my parents was like this. It’s very hard to live with. But they did experience essentially terrifying, going very hungry levels of poverty through their whole childhood and teens. So even though we did have money, they never could stop being that hungry kid deep down.

I know a family like this but on a much smaller scale, they save the monthly child allowance which adds up to quite a bit with 3 children. It always irritated me when she complained incessantly about having no money to go on holidays or just do day trips away or little treats. The incessant complaining about it was what really annoyed me.
I can see why this would annoy your friendship group when you’ve purposely chosen cheaper and I’m sure less comfortable options on holidays to accommodate them

They are not a lovely couple (and I don't mean the rugby camp thing, which seems to be a weird one-off).

By pretending to be poor, rather than merely thrifty, they have forced you all to give them what they want (100% inclusion, on a budget) instead of what you might have chosen (spend more, let thriftier group members opt out from time to time)

They are either manipulative, or obtuse and unempathetic. I cannot imagine knowing that a friend has unnecessarily deprived herself of a longed-for birthday treat, just for the sake of my investment account, without being utterly mortified.

PS why did no-one suspect? Did they ever offer to drop out so you could do more expensive things?

These people weren’t really your friends. You were their mark.