AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

This doesn't sound pretty wonderful to me. It sounds exhausting & overbearing. Our family holidays were exactly that. A chance to bond as a unit while making our own choices without the stress of discussing what a huge group fancied doing before and during the break. I think OPs situation is an example of how not to holiday given the end result but each to their own.

This couple’s young son will feel desperately guilty his parents have given so much up for uni, limited his childhood experiences for it - how much pressure will he have to succeed now - and, simultaneously be less equipped to cope with life as his first home will be handed to him on a plate.

This. And you make an excellent point about depriving him of the opportunity to develop his sporting ability and to acquire life skills like driving.

The rugby camp example is really shocking. The deceit involved in allowing that to happen appals me. I can completely understand why the other parents are furious.

Whilst I think that it's their choice how they spend or save their income, for them to accept a handout (in the form of letting others subsidise their son's rugby camp) is effing disgraceful!

As you say - £20/day - as a one-off they could have taken a hundred quid (or whatever) out of that month's saved income.

If it's going to upset the children, I'd remain friends, but there's no way I'd let them call the shots regarding holidays, restaurants etc again. they could pay up or bugger off.

I'd be annoyed too, but moreso at myself for allowing another couple with a good income dictate my group holidays / outings for 18 years. Where they've put their cash is irrelevant. If I knew they earned well but had for example stretched themselves to have a huge house and mortgage then I would'nt have been sympathetic either. Thats their financial choice- they didn't need to. I would've just organised what I wanted and let people choose to come if they wanted.

On the one hand I have deep admiration for anyone to save up that amount of money to set their DC up so they don't have to scrimp and save like they did.

I also feel for the people who have probably had to make hundreds of micro and macro compromises over the years to include this 'poor' family. Although, honestly, I have never discussed finances at this level with my friends.

If we go on a group holiday, we compromise to the spending of the least well off, but we don't expect that family to give a breakdown of their spending / saving habits.

God it's hard. I hope this all calms down. Everyone needs to reflect. A bit more transparency from the 'poor' family; a bit more understanding and empathy from the 'rich' families as to why the 'poor' family has acted in this way.

Teenage children should not be ostracised.

This.

That boy is not responsible for his parents, and probably didn't even know they didn't pay for his rugby camp.

If he and the other children get on well and enjoy each others' friendship, don't make him a scapegoat.

I’m going to tell you something now and it doesn’t paint me in a good light. A friend told me something similar a few years ago, he is not a close friend, I have never even bought him a cup of tea, not to mind going on
holidays with him.

But I felt like a mug. A total clown, that he had done this and I hadn’t.

I kind of avoid him now and don’t really like even seeing him because it makes me feel like a big idiot for squandering money, while he was clever.

But, but, but I couldn’t live like him either. I don’t think there is any hope for the friendship, it’s like something has been revealed that will make you look back on every ‘tight’ decision they made and dislike them more.

The only thing I find hard to believe is that they told their children about the money. I feel so sorry for the son, it’s not his fault, it’s the parents fault.

Thirteen years on, we're still in a strong friendship group with our NCT mates – five families in all – and we still go away once a year. Due to a career change and the pandemic, my earnings have been seriously depleted for the past few years. I've been completely upfront with the rest of the group about us needing to cut our cloth accordingly and they have kindly made accommodations, like going to cheaper places to eat out.

If they found out I'd been lying about my finances and had actually been squirrelling away hundreds of thousands of pounds I wouldn't blame them for never talking to us again, and I don't blame your friends for feeling so aggrieved. It's so deceitful to pretend to be poor like that, especially when people are genuinely struggling right now because of the CoL. I would never have minded either if the rest of the group had wanted to go somewhere fancier on holiday - we just wouldn't have gone and caught up with them afterwards.

Have they apologised to the group for lying for all these years@richmanpoorman, or do they think they haven't done anything wrong?

This isn’t about money or how nice this couple are it’s about liars

They lied and lied and lied over and over.

Every time they cried poverty they were lying

Every time they sat there not getting a coffee or snack and telling you they were broke, they were lying.

The 18 years of crappy holidays leading to one child being scarred for life because they lied and wanted to control the group that is unforgivable

How can you trust that anything they say is the truth

Think of this as a marriage with one person dripping lies in the ear of the other. Telling them they were broke and they couldn’t have the things that they worked hard for because there was no money left.
Then finding out after you have raised your children with no nice extras that they might have wanted that the money had been there all along

They might be lovely people and great fun when they are out with you but that is a mask they wear to get you to pay for things and to control the group to do their bidding

I would hazard a guess that they see only money
Experiences and nice times are unnecessary expenses to be got through as cheaply as possible

In trying to give their dc a leg up in life by lying all they have done is caused caused irreparable damage

This. I'd feel I compromised with cheap accommodation because they didn't have a choice, they manipulated the group to meet their financial goals. And I don't care about what they want to save the money on as long as it doesn't impact my decisions. I have a friend who does the same thing - they save one salary and she pleads poverty and lives on a punitive budget- despite having close to £4 million in assets. We don't do anything together that costs money.

Friendships often break down when one part of the group constantly feels compromised by another.

We had a group of friends formed through a hobby and continued with weekends away and occasional group holidays. Over the years it was always compromised to a couple's preferences, saving £2 on a meal here (and another half an hour traipsing around hungry in search of the cheap restaurant with the vegetarian option that suited them). The squabbling over the bill at the end because they've put in their £14.45 and every one else has rounded up to cover the service charge. There was a meanness of effort too, they never put in the effort to organise the trips.
Then you find out they managed to organise their own holiday, some of which weren't cheap (but not necesarrily luxurious) and you do feel exploited that your effort, and generosity have been exploited so they can do everything on their own terms and they never put the effort in to organising anything for the group in return or paying an extra £ here and there to make the dynamics smoother.

Most people do things with an opportunity cost, but when your financial preferences always compromise your friends, it's not uncommon for them to reach a point of feeling used or exploited and reach a point of no return.

Saving is wise, but that's an extreme level and not necessarily a wise extent of saving:compromise to start a young person's life anyway.
Yes, I'd be pissed off to find that my comfort level on holidays had been compromised for years to prioritise a hefty level of savings rather than genuine financial need, and it is the extent of feeling like a breach of trust.

It's not financial difference or priorty that's the issue, it's feeling used under false pretences, and undervalued as a friend.

Sorry if I've missed this but are you absolutely sure this money wasn't left in trust for the children? I.e grand parents skipped a generation and left it to kids so dad has invested it but couldn't spend it other than for things like education?

It seems such a high amount to have started from scratch rather than an inheritance or compensation pay out.

I think they told their kids because the money is in their kid's name for tax reasons, so at 18 the money had to be managed by the dc. Not a choice I'd have made - big risk assuming your dc are going to be in the right place to deal with having that amount of money.

I agree. And people are well within their rights to be pissed off about it.

Love your update op, that you are all trying to work it out. Remember that although you would have preferred the better trips that could have been affordable if everyone had the same budget, you have all had the benefit of cheaper breaks. Who knows if those breaks would have remained a priority, for all of the couples, if there had been more financial outlay. I do admire their frugality in one sense, but I don’t think I could ultimately make this sacrifice long term, and miss out on some of the things they cut back on. So whilst their kids have a nice pot of money now, there has been consequences along the way.

If it wasn’t for their lies, no one would have assumed they couldn’t afford it and stepped forward to pay.

Was it by any chance very close to the deadline to pay and the guy who payed thought he was helping them out because they were broke.

The question is if they hadn’t said they were too poor all of the time would the other person have paid ?

I feel like the angriest ones are probably the ones who were most sanctimonious about always making sure the low budget family were included, and had this as part of their self image of how considerate and thoughtful they were. And now feel like mugs. it’s weird that it wasn’t obvious to all of you that they were just making different choices about what to do with their money since they had two good jobs.

It sounds like the group dynamics weren’t particularly healthy - it’s weird that this never came up in conversation in 18 years, and I’d be hurt by that, because it means you’re not as close with this couple as you all thought you were. The crappy holidays and not going on the 50th birthday trip are on the rest of you, because you all made those choices, probably in quite a large part because you wanted to feel good about yourselves for being such kind thoughtful people.

It seems such a high amount to have started from scratch rather than an inheritance or compensation pay out.

The couple lived off one salary for 18 years. The other salary was above average (implied by OP) so it’s credible to me they could have £850K banked, because of compounded interest (even considering paying some tax on that interest).

Am not sure I’d get past this. At the end of the day, their choices have impacted on everyone else’s lives. Think of the experiences your family could have had. It would have been different if they had been honest and just said we are saving like fury for the kids. Tbh the kids don’t need £850k and the fact that they have lived these impoverished lives with no extra curriculars/driving lessons etc, I suspect the kids will spend it quickly and live life to the full. Whilst you can count your money in the back, memories are priceless and all of yours are of tatty holiday accommodation and budget activities.

Your friends are selfish cunts who clearly don’t value your friendship as much as the rest of you do.

They alone have limited the entertainment and holiday choices of a group of friends for years because they didn’t want their little family to miss out on holiday and fun experiences by deliberately pretending to be skint to ensure they were included in everything.

The rest of you chose to be kind and inclusive so chose the cheapest options when on occasion, you’d have preferred to splash out occasionally.

If they’d been honest at the start and said they were choosing to save a significant portion of their income and that therefore they wouldn’t attend some of the more expensive events, that would have been fine and no-one would have felt uncomfortable choosing to spend a bit more on a group holiday or significant birthday event occasionally.

They knew all along that some of you wanted to splash out occasionally but they didn’t care about what you wanted. They only thought of themselves.

I’d drop them like a stone. Who needs friends like that?

I have a similar situation but with family member and it’s made me very cross.

The issue is that they have prioritised other things - in my case, takeaways and socialising- over buying their kids the basics. We have bought school shoes, coats etc and taken the kids away as we don’t want to see the kids miss out. All why wondering how they could earn £80k+ and live in poverty.

Turns out there has been money spent on partying. Drink, low level gambling etc.

So so many red flags but the biggest issue for me is the constant- and I mean - constant comments about affordability and their ‘being broke’. Parents have paid out huge amounts over the years to subsidise them. It’s a constant narrative yet it turns out that it’s just a case of priorities. I’m cross for the kids that they have missed out. I’m cross that we’ve paid out so much. They weren’t broke at all, they chose to spend on other things and let everyone around them support them in one way or another.

It's often small things like - the last one to the bar to buy a round of drinks, never paying for the taxi, doesn't pay for the tip in the restaurant - these are things that the group would cover if they thought someone couldn't afford it but to find out they could and they just decided not to. I don't think the group can move past this, it's too big - how do you arrange another holiday - no way would they be sticking to the budget couple's limit anymore - it would have all the makings of a disaster.

I would be annoyed because they did lie by omission and it’s been a long one. If they had said they were saving and so didn’t want to spend money on expensive stuff it might have caused a few raised eyebrows at the time, but ultimately you would have all got over it. Allowing you all to contribute to their son’s rugby camp isn’t okay at all.

I’m not sure what I’d do now. I suppose it depends on how much I liked them apart from the finances issue! I imagine they never intended to lie and it sort of snow balled but I do think I’d need some sort of apology for being misleading. Otherwise I’d probably cool the friendship. Whatever happens, I’d make an effort to tell the kids that whatever issues the parents have has no impact on them and the kids are welcome any time (with no fear you will bad mouth their mum and dad).

This all over

Honestly OP, its none of your business. Lesson learned, dont pay for other people's kids to do stuff.

I can’t really get my head round being angry about going on cheap holidays. What on earth is that about? They must have had their own family holidays - which could have been as expensive as they liked.

As other posters have said is this not really about jealousy that they’ve built up a nest egg for their kids?

If this couple had chosen to pay private school fees and that was the reason for their lack of funds - what would the choice have been then?