AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

@pizzaHeart has nailed it. This:

“This friendship wouldn’t survive for me. This story means basically that all these years you did a colossal effort to accommodate your friends’ life choices whereas they did nothing like that for you in response. If it was such a sincere good intention why didn’t they tell you about it? Nothing wrong with saying : “Sorry guys we are really worried about Charlie’s and Lauren’s future so decided to save as much as possible for uni years. So we will miss the skiing this time, see you for barbecue at ours. “
Of course, people might say you never asked but year after year they were selling you an assumption that they were struggling for reasons out of their control but it was not actually true, it was their choice.”

You say they’re lovely people but this behaviour of theirs wasn’t lovely.

It would only be ok if it had never very impacted you

The rugby camp thing is shitty. How dare they allow you to pay for that while stashing away the best part of £1m?

The holiday thing seems fine, though. Different people set different budgets for trips. If their budget was £500 then fair enough. Why should they spend another £500 on top of that? Obviously doubling the budget would get you plusher accommodation (not sure why you pointed that out as if it was some amazingly clever trick!). Sometimes you spend a little on a camping trip, caravan or cheap cottage and have an amazing time. Sometimes you spend much more and find the 'posh' accommodation is run down, or dirty, or just badly designed and in an inconvenient location.

They were definitely wise with their finances, but also dishonest towards their so called friends.
That's how I feel.
It's up to them how they manage their finances. They're under no obligation to increase their budgets for discretionary spending to suit friends.

But wouldn't have taken much to not make out to friends they're skint/hard up for 18 years and just say they've chosen a smaller budget so they can save. Or to say "thanks for thinking of us, we're just working to some savings targets you go to X place and we'll catch up next time".

Most people I know wouldn't bat an eyelid if someone declined an event or weekend away but still caught up with friends in other ways. There's no need for people who are very comfortable to pretend to be poor for years and let their friends cater around them like that.

Apart from subsiding their sons Rugby Camp , I really don’t think how they choose to save their money is any of your business to be fair . It’s their choice on how they save their money . Moving forward I wouldn’t spare them a thought when planning holidays either .

Maybe what you should all do is get together over champagne and cavier over the skiing holiday (oh, wait… it’s probably grotty) so perhaps over a burger and chips and compare just how rich you all are and the weakest link has gotta go 🤣

Sorry I had to.

Was about to post that balance is needed. This couple have deprived their kids of after school activities and driving lessons - all of which scaffold a YP into adulthood and build confidence and resilience. Part of going to uni is about learning to budget, going hungry at the end of term at least once because you partied hard/spent too much; and you appreciate the experience because you pay for it personally through govt loans.

We are very lucky to have been able to plan for our kids uni educations - we will expect them to get the student loans for fees/maintenance etc but we’ve planned to cover accommodation and to top up the maintenance loan as they won’t get a full amount, perhaps subside a second hand car if needed. We already know that this privileges our kids and that they are very lucky we were in a position to do this for them when many of their peers will be struggling. We’ve also planned that we would draw on equity in our home to buy a place if its practical (5 years at med school or 4-5 years for a BA/MA/work experience year for the other buying makes sense rather than renting if we ca afford it). We’ve told them they’ll need a PT job for their drinking/backpacking around Europe fund - they need to learn life skills that underwriting the whole thing will prevent them from acquiring.

However, we’ve never guilted our friends (yes a close knit NCT group here too] into doing something they’d rather not do/subsidising us/downgrading plans - we’ve simply picked and chosen which group activities to join in - lots of mass, drunken camping trips when the kids were young; day trips etc as the kids grew older - and now, finally, I’m opting to join the girls weekends (in part because we lost two friends recently and realised life is both too short and, as parents, we’re allowed to prioritise ourselves occasionally). We’re all ‘professionals’ but it’s clear some have prioritised, for example, being mortgage free by 45 so live modestly and frugally so that they are protected from mid-life redundancy fall out.

This couple’s young son will feel desperately guilty his parents have given so much up for uni, limited his childhood experiences for it - how much pressure will he have to succeed now - and, simultaneously be less equipped to cope with life as his first home will be handed to him on a plate.

I am a bit confused as presumably the families involved had other holidays and experiences besides the group activities. They wanted holidays as a group and that's what they got. I imagine they also wanted to use the friends for their children to experience what having less money feels like?? I know lots of people who I could a stab in the dark at knowing their income broadly. I also know sometimes they say they can't afford a take away for example and then do something else more expensive. They are making choices. Sometimes annoying but essentially their business.

@Becles Did you miss this?

richmanpoorman · Yesterday 17:42

GingerIsBest · Yesterday 17:34

Also, how often have you and the rest of the gang low level subsidised them? You know, things like more likely to havr meals.at your house because they cant afford to.entertain/don't have space? Or saying, "no no, we got the wine " when out all together etc? I bet its loads, like my flatmate.
This. Exactly

Yes, they technically didn't ask for the rugby money, although given they were happy to allow the other dad to pay it rather than say "Gosh, that's so generous of you but actually we don't need it, please let us reimburse you" I'm not sure that's a particularly strong mark in their favour.

However, outside the rugby and the holidays, there's also been an ongoing low level of subsidy from the other couples picking up a little more of the shared costs to help out.

What’s the problem with making friends and having shared holidays ?

Sounds pretty wonderful to me.
However that family should
have been transparent and honest - being tight to that level is gross and letting other people pay for you is dishonest. All sounds too extreme honestly. I mean does an 18-year-old really need £850 K ? Wouldn’t £200k been a good enough start
he’ll probably blow it on cocaine & partying with parents like that

The more I think about it, the more complex this is. There is anger that their situation was choice, not necessity, and they arguably hid that.

But lots of people make choices not to maximise disposable income - choosing a career that matches their interests rather than the highest paid, a lower paid job with an easy commute, working part time or turning down overtime for work-life balance - where do you draw the line?

I think all the holiday stuff etc is irrelevant tbh. They were entirely within their rights to set a budget for their holidays, and others could have chosen to do something different if they weren't happy with this. Their income isn't a factor in this, because nobody else has the right to dictate how others should spend their money.

The rugby camp thing is taking the piss, though. They absolutely shouldn't have allowed others to subsidise their ds's place when they could clearly afford it themselves. I think I would want to hear them explain why they think this is OK.

This thread is bizarre. Most peoples points and objections don't even apply / aren't even relevant.

The whole thing is bizarre. No one needs an £850k gift at aged 18. Some MN'ers financially struggle, can't afford to save. Others are high earners. Others save for the kids, an old CTF, an isa, for uni fees. Some household earn over £100k and save a lot. But £850k? I mean come on.

That's mental. I've read posts where people saved all dc childhood, but refuse to give it to them at 18, thinking they are irresponsible, will piss it all up the wall instead of saving it for sale a house deposit.

People on those threads have anything from £2k, £5k, 10K , 15 K , 30 K saved . Not £850k.

This couple could've gone on every single holiday and could've paid the £250 or £500 extra every single time . For a nicer holiday.

Not being able to go out to any restaurant ever because they pleaded poverty? So taking snacks round to eachothers houses? (Which is lovely, but an occasional going out would've also been nice - but this couple prevented that).

not being able to afford a coffee, not being able to afford the £200 for a football tournament?

I mean come on, even if you had a loads of money and invest it straight into your investments without it going into your bank account. Why would you ever leave yourself so short that you don't have £200? if you're on a higher income? that's not sensible, living or budgeting or forecasting, that's just ridiculous .

So their kid has ended up with 850 K? but he's now got no friends from this old group. and the mum (op) has got no friendship group. win-win ?

@1offnamechange the way I see it, the choice was to go on a cheaper holiday that included the couple concerned, or a more expensive one that didn't.

Are we somehow meant to think that it's better to go on a fancier holiday without our friends, than a cheaper holiday with them? That is just mind-blowing to me. Isn't the point of a holiday to spend time with people you love?

EVERYONE makes certain choices that constrain their holiday budgets. Presumably if all the other couples hadn't, I don't know, bought certain cars, such big houses, gone out for dinner, they could have afforded even MORE expensive holidays. Did they commit some kind of friendship crime by not doing that? Of course not.

But I don't think any of us have a moral duty to our friends to maximise the holiday budgets we have for shared trips, which seems to be the undertone of half this thread.

I dont really understand how the rugby camp payment has become everyone else’s business - it feels very gossipy. Regardless of whether the obey was actually needed, if the other father was doing it out of kindness, he should have kept it to himself.

the whole group seem rather money obsessed - the fact the children think it’s ok to discuss what money is being given to them for uni says it all really! It’s all very vulgar.

What I can't understand is how an ENTIRE friendship GROUP have let ONE couple dictate their holidays and so on. I mean I think OP is in the minority of holidaying in a large friendship group when they all have their own kids. I personally think the issue is that they have savings for their kids and the fact the couple haven't delved into their finances... nobody's business though!

It is riling, given they've constantly complained of having no money and you as a group have subsidised their DC( rugby club etc)
If they had explained we are living off one salary and saving the other it puts a total different perspective on it- they weren't skint, they could afford rugby club for their DS but they choose not to pay for it.
Their money their choice but dont accept other parents money to subsidise your DC and moan about being skint when you've got ££££££ of savings.
We knew a similar couple- although wife was more open about it- her DH wanted to pay off mortgage quickly- wouldn't we all !- so refused to get a car. which meant although they afford a car they constantly relied on other people to take their DC to clubs and events for free.

If they had lived properly. Allowed their son to go on extra curriculum activities. Taught him to drive. Going on better holidays with op's group and spending that extra £500; allowing that coffee, that football tournament, that extra..... it still would have costed £50k. So the ds would've still ended up with a ridiculous £800k instead of £850k.

I should add that I have friends who are extremely wealthy - and I mean huge family trusts, will never need to work or have a mortgage, live in some of London's most expensive areas - and when we set budgets for trips, theirs are always low-ish, which suits me as we can go away together! - but this reflects the fact that wealth and frugality are not a weird combination, but often rather deeply interrelated.

You get wealthy, and stay wealthy, in many cases, by being very careful with money and having a strong sense of responsibility around money.

@Runnerduck34 even so why did anybody offer to assist without stopping to think 2 parents on good salaries? Why were they struggling?

My main takeaway is that yet again I'm astounded at how normal it is on MN to know (or think you know) the details of your friends' finances. I have a vague idea of who's reasonably loaded and who's a bit more skint but I have no idea of anyone's actual income. I also don't consider it my business so even if I've sometimes been surprised by who says they're on a tight budget vs. who suddenly splashes some cash, I don't pry into that.

Holidaying with the same people for nearly two decades feels unusual to me as well, and would indicate that you like these people for who they are, not what they say their budget is. That's BFF, ride-or-die territory, not casual acquaintances. That's surely a friendship where their financial situation literally shouldn't matter.

In reality their kids haven't ever been on a school holiday, don't have passports, aren't being taught to drive, did no after school sports training despite being talented, haven't had their bedrooms refurbished since they moved in.... none of this is abusive in any way, and they are loving parents and the kids are fine, but it is a bit sad and a shame as it's not all necessary.
Aren’t you worried that they’re going to read this, especially if other friends have? It’s extraordinarily frank and, I agree, quite sad.

I would also consider that this was always going to come out. It sounds like oneupmanship of the highest order. “Ha ha you’ve all thought us poor and helped us out a lot, but our children have half a million to enjoy. Take that!”. It doesn’t sound that nice.

This is it! They’ve made you look like fools and you don’t like it. Good for them.