AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

I would understand if it was the rugby.

but the holiday? Not going out?
that is massively unreasonable. They get to decide how they’ll spend their money.

and more importantly: a “nicer” vacation here, going out to eat there… that does add up!

When you put it like that even the rugby thing is nothing. It's just like anyone where someone is a bit cheeky/ CF ... my cousin is like this and she's loaded, but always will try and get someone else to foot her bill. They're frugal, you just all assumed they were poor

I don’t think the friends group were explicitly asked to go on grim holidays. It’s a choice the group made! They made assumptions on this family’s finances. Whose problem is it ?

why didn’t the others start excluding this family as they are doing now? It’s probably because they were a good company. Jealousy is getting them now.

Have they ever been skiing? It probably isn’t particularly easy as a first timer of a “certain age” (I am assuming 50+)

anyhow, did you or anyone else ever explicitly ask why they were “struggling” financially? Seeing as they were both working FT and had good jobs?

As a pp said: people decide how to spend their money. Allocating a certain amount for holidays, entertainment etc. is what many of us do.

And whether we decide to spend it all on hair appointments, holidays or invest it for our children is ultimately our choice…

and yes, your other friends do sound as if the difference in background hadn’t even occurred to them! Their reaction to being called privileged and you explaining the difference in the size of your houses makes this extremely obvious.
The “poor couple” didn’t get to consider clean and fitting school uniforms as “normal” and the others got help with their first house(s). Did anyone ever try to intentionally bridge that disconnect?

as for blaming that couple for the DD’s injury: seriously??? Massively unreasonable.

I would understand it if they were upset about funding the rugby camp.
But they’re clearly not upset about that but are outraged about the holiday situation! Which seems to highlight the disconnect between the financial mindsets of these couples, doesn’t it?

I thought, mind your own business, until I read that you subsidised the rugby club for them. That’s utterly disgusting to be honest. I’d be on the fence too but ultimately they wouldn’t be forming part of my friendship group in the same way.

as for blaming that couple for the DD’s injury: seriously??? Massively unreasonable

The more I think about this, the more you all sound like assholes. Especially the privileged ones who all got a handout, who obviously have no idea what it means to go without so your children can have things that you didn't get.

I'd love to see this thread from the friends P.O.V

How people choose to spend / allocate their money is absolutely none of anyone else's business. You choose whether to do things with other people or not based on what they say they can afford. However I'd be pissed off about the rugby club thing.

Some people have simpler lifestyles out of choice. They don’t have expensive tastes.

Regarding the rugby club, are you sure you didn’t offer it out of some superiority?

I can tell you something from your friend’s perspective. I can be reasonably sure they assumed you made similar plans (either savings or large inheritances) for your children and still had a lot of money left to spend.

I find it hard to believe people choose lifestyle/luxuries over securing kids futures.

The only thing I take from this post is that you went on holiday for 18 years straight with a group of people you met at NCT classes? Good Lord! I'm still pretty close with some of my NCT Mums from 20+ years ago, by which I mean I see them for a drink or dinner a few times a year.

I couldn't imagine a life in which I went on holiday every year with the same group of couples! Do people actually do this?

This thread once again reminds me how diverse mn is and how differently people see things. I struggle to comprehend some posters viewpoints.

It just wouldn't be ok for me, the deception, the lying, even if you consider it to be by omission. Trust. Gone. Can't be regained.

How much info did they share? Op described them as 'super close' and that they saw eachother all the time.

What's your definition of super close?
Telling them you had a smear? Telling them your new boss is a bully? What constitutes super close? For you.

Depends what level of friendship this group had. Were they ever really close? (Mn view generally of close friendship, seeing as many MN'ers are introverts, is not the same as my view and rather my need for close friendship).
Many MN'ers are much more self sufficient. Not needing close friendships. But for me it's an essential part, and sharing nearly all of my very personal details either my few closest friends is an essential part of what makes that friendship close, compared to other friendships who aren't as close, or other friends, or people you meet regularly but don't share that much with, or other friends, or acquaintances, or all the categories that segregate the different closeness of friendships.

The other 3 couples have already stopped speaking to them. This thread can't force the other 3 couples to start speaking to them again can it! So the group dynamic is over anyway. The new group (less 'poor couple'), ie 4 couples only now, are now going skiing, which poor couple wouldn't have been able to do anyway.

Op is actually bereft. She's sad, she's lost a group who were the mainstay of her social life. Worse still she's lost it through no fault of her own.

And the poor boy, I feel sorry for him. It's not his fault, but he's left with the feelings of regret of telling all what turned out to be a whopper, poor lad!

They've probably been wise given how cost of living is impacting the younger generation. I've grown up in a working class family where my parents, grandparents and now me have all been in council housing and therefore have had no assets. I didn't get any kind of inheritance and neither will my children. Life is tough when you only have wages and nothing else. Building up assets is important and when you've come from a poor background but then can afford to start putting money aside it is a priority.

Sadly I was left a single parent so I've had to manage on just one low wage so I have no assets and no way to help my children as they grow up. My 23yr is still stuck at home because of it.

The rugby thing (if that’s a fairly isolated example) looks bad in hindsight but it wouldn’t really annoy me that much, though I agree they probably should have tried harder to refuse any “charity” over the years”.

What would annoy me would be 18 years of lying by omission and deception. There was no need for them to spill the beans on their whole financial setup. A normal thing to do would have simply been to say, after a couple of years of cheap holidays:

“Look we know you’re budgeting for us which is really nice but we’re happy to sit out the holidays sometimes - we’re prioritising creating a fund for our kids over expensive holidays - and so if you ever want to book something a bit nicer just go ahead and don’t feel bad”.

They never did that, probably because they also wanted their kids involved in all the fun and not missing out in that respect - as well as having a decent fund on becoming adults. So your friends were selfish and prioritised their needs at the expense of the other families enjoyment. Put bluntly, you were all only ever a means to an end - providing budget fun for this family along the way while they saved up for their kids. Yeah, I’d be phasing out that friendship while of course not making a big deal about it in front of the children and making clear that the kids are all totally blameless.

They were definitely wise with their finances, but also dishonest towards their so called friends.

People click and make friends in different circumstances. You could argue it’s less weird making good friends as you step into a new life of parenthood than it is clinging to the random people you happened to meet as a 11 year old child.

You can't invite them sking unless the group agrees. I'd talk with the group first, before extending the invitation. Otherwise it will end up being you four, and the rest go another date/elsewhere.

The only thing I'd have had an issue with is letting you pay for rugby camp.
Everything else is completely fair enough - and very sensible of them. I do think the should have told you from the onset though that they were living on one salary and didn't have access to the other as it was invested straight away.

While I do believe it’s incredibly cheeky to plead poverty and accept financial help from friends when the money was/could actually have be there. I feel that your main issue here is that you have been somewhat ‘deprived’ (lol try not having a family holiday for 5 years) of nicer holidays, but then you can’t blame people for having budgets. Even if they were honest about the other income, would you really expect them to be putting another £500/£1000 into the holiday? It’s there money to play with. If you are that distressed over the shitty holidays, why go on holiday with them? Why not just do your own thing?

To be honest, I think the whole thing is pathetic. Yes, they are cheeky. BUT if they are otherwise nice respectful people then I don’t think cutting them off is the right thing to do. Maybe they just need to treat you to something to repay what you have helped with over the years.

OP, what I didn’t like was when I read the part of your original comment which states ‘Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends‘…. I’m sorry, so if you don’t have a certain type of job or earn a shit load of money you can’t be in the group? I’d understand the comment if you all met through big networking events through your jobs…. But it was an antenatal class that any one could have been at? I’m assuming thats why the other 3 couples in the class never got to stay within the circle, because they weren’t good enough for you? All sounds very bitchy to me.

They have expected others to subsidise them. The group all paid for their child to go to rugby camp (£20 a day) as they said they were too broke. That’s cheeky and scabby IMO.

I find it hard to believe people choose lifestyle/luxuries over securing kids futures. I don't, I see it all the time. Even this thread shows how one couple has managed to save that much more and how much better off her kids will be compared to others that were supposedly so much better off. I do think some of this is due to jealousy (or awe and embarrassment)

This thread kind of reminds me of a mum from school. She kept asking me for second hand clothes and said she couldn't afford to buy new ones. I said it was a bit difficult because both our kids were the exact same age. Someone donated some clothes to me because i wasnt working, i gave the beautiful coat to her daughter. The donator got mad because she knew this lady a long time before me. She's wealthy but pleads poverty to save up her money. I apologised because I didn't know and said I wouldn't give her anything else. I spoke with the lady, and she admitted her husband runs an it company and is very wealthy. Never said sorry about asking for clothes?! Saw them driving around in a £55'000 car, and her husband picked up the kids wearing a rolex! I kid you not. I was hurt because my child could have done with that coat that winter, and all those times I bought her a coffee at the cafe (when I hardly had any money). She's not my friend now because you don't lie to friends, and you don't let others subsidise your lifestyle if you're not genuinely poor.

So in your friends defense, they probably feel hurt that they were lied to, and angry that they were used in someway. They may have paid for some things here and there, like you did with the boys camp.

Yeah but their kids have missed out on a lot so that they have an extraordinary amount to start their adulthood with

There must be a balance to be found

This seems to be the only example in 18 years, even this sounded dubious that one of the fathers just paid for it so it may not have been as scabby as it has been made out to be. By their definition they were too broke and the other person didn't have to pay for it. I still don't understand how the friends were completely clueless as surely you'd be wondering where their money was going .... also if you were all so close isn't this something that would come up in a general discussion? Maybe for another thread

@Bunbum
“If you are that distressed over the shitty holidays, why go on holiday with them? Why not just do your own thing?”

They weren’t distressed at the cheap holidays. They are annoyed/distressed now as they rightly feel they were misled.

And they obviously continued with the cheaper holidays as a nice gesture to include their friend and their children who otherwise may have felt very left out and aware of their parents inability to afford the holidays.

We go away every year with a group of families from a club dh was in at university. It’s not the main holiday for anyone but it’s a nice part of the yearly routine. Kids used to love it, most of them have grown out of it now though and unlike in the op’s case mostly haven’t stayed friends.
We will often come across other groups older or younger than us doing exactly the same thing.