AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

Were they actually pleading poverty as in going around saying "woe, alas if only we had as much spending money as the rest of you" or were they basically saying "we can't afford that this month/the maximum we can spend on a holiday is this" and the rest of you talked together and assumed they must not have much money. Because in scenario one you all have a right to be annoyed. In scenario two that's what happens when you make assumptions.

This ^ is the million dollar question really.

It's so dishonest. Rugby club aside, it's YEARS and YEARS of you all making choices and sacrifices that ensure they felt included (which to me sums up true friendship) whilst they've let you miss out on experiences, take the cheapest route at every given opportunity, and taken advantage of your kindness.

If they had said we're saving money and living on one salary, you could have, and may well have, made different choices at certain points (chosen nicer holidays, gone on a spa weekend etc) safe in the knowledge that they were choosing not to come. As it is, you believed they couldn't afford any of those things so all adjusted your behaviour to support it and include them.

Everyone saying it's their money to save and their choice - yes, that's true. But they were dishonest about that. They let their group of supposedly close friends believe they were truly struggling financially and as a result so much of their shared time and experiences were different than they could/should/would have been had they all known.

It's fine to choose to take a flask of tea out with you on a walk instead of going to a theme park and buying drinks there. It's not fine to pretend you can only afford to take a flask of tea out with you on a walk so your friends all decide to sack off the theme park and drinks so you can all be together.

It's mind bogglingly dishonest in my opinion. The nice holidays you didn't go on, the days out you missed, the trips you chose not to do - all to support your friends and make sure you were a team and THE WHOLE TIME they've been sitting on nearly a million? They'd need to spend it on bodyguards tbh as I'd be fuming

How have they taken advantage of anyone? (Don't mention the 100 quid offered by one of the dads) Obviously the group organised themselves according to the lowest budget as they wanted to go on holiday with them. Nothing to do with anything else. If they didn't want to do this then they would have planned holidays that that family would not have gone on. Don't understand all the wailing and gnashing of teeth posters.

I think I would feel a bit cheated too , mostly if others made sacrifices for them and their children. The rugby camp but we definitely wrong , very wrong

Clearly you value their friendship. We all have different budgets and priorities when it comes to money. I also feel money makes everything more complicated. It would have been a lot of sacrifice to save that amount but potentially they see the benefits of having that help has had on others in the group and wanted that for their children. I understand it’s frustrating as you could have gone on nicer holidays etc but were the holidays that mediocre? If you knew how much they had managed to save by making certain decisions you or others might have just labelled them tight which would have damaged the friendship anyway. Ultimately for this reason I can understand why they kept their finances to themselves. Having said that there is a difference between our budget is this…/he can’t afford this (they don’t really need to say why/ come to ours for coffee (might prefer for other reasons) and money is really tight at the moment/ he have no money/ we are struggling financially etc.

p.s I think it would have been wise for them to turn down the rugby money as I think it’s one thing to all go to a cheaper restaurant but pay for your own than to decide not to pay for rugby that month and let someone else pay it.

Literally this. I don’t like people who pretend to struggle when there are people who are really struggling. The subsidising the rugby camp I mean who makes someone else pay for their child so they can save an entire income? Cheeky bastards

The thing is everyone has different standards and priorities. I know people who earn a lot more than us but houses are falling apart, no carpets on floors, kitchen cupboards falling apart but will be out 5 out of 7 nights a week, eating at nice restaurants and pubs, go on overseas holidays averaging once a month.

We have friends who recently hit a hard time and couldn’t afford to send their yr6 child on the 1 residential they’d get to do at primary school £150, we didn’t even think about it, we paid. We know they have very different priorities to us. Since the “hard times” 2 months ago they have been out drinking multiple times, 2 weekends away, party at their house and a designer handbag for the wife, yet couldn’t afford £150 to send their child on a school trip. Their house is also approx worth 4 times s much as ours and they have a holiday home. The difference is both DH and I knew they have very different priorities to us, we would always prioritise our DCs we cancelled our wedding anniversary meal which we had to budget for to cover the residential costs, we did this with the full knowledge we were doing it for their child and don’t expect to see the money, but we will definitely have plenty of parties at their house in the future.

If it's known she earns up to £70k a year and he's on similar as an accountant and they're extremely tight, where did you all think their earnings were going for 18 years? Surely not all on their mortgage? And even then, they could live elsewhere on those wages.

They had budgets and stuck to it , they never lied as such just never told all about finances which is a choice. If i won big on the lottery i would tell barely anyone and thats my choice.
re: holidays if you all wanted better you could of set a higher budget and explained you wanted a little better . I have not gone on some holidays with friends as not in our budget, sometimes because I had other things i wanted to spend my money on
the paying for rugby would ped me off but did they ask , or were they pushed in to it. Maybe they were ok with their son missing rugby in the grander scheme of things

They are 2 snakes. I feel sorry for the son though.

Yeah they have lied by omission I would be angry. Pleading poverty all the time and letting others pay for their kids rugby 🤬.

This is an interesting thread. If the couple have been subsidised by you all then that isn't really on. However.... They are perfectly entitled to state a budget for a holiday and stick to it. To be perfectly honest more fool all of you for not doing what you wanted to do in the past. My friendship group is very mixed in terms of finances, so we do a mix of things. I'm very happy to go camping or host a BBQ so that everyone can come. But I also did a group holiday abroad for a big birthday knowing that it wouldn't be affordable for all the friends in the group. I've also gone to concerts and spa weekends with those in the group who can afford to. You can't all blame them for choices you all made.

The mumsnetters saying rich people stay rich by scrimping and being tight is wild to me. No, they don't. If the couple from op's story occasionally went out for coffee and booked decent (nothing fancy, just decent) accommodation during these trips instead of shitholes, it just means they would have saved 800k by now instead of 850k, that's it.

They possibly would have assumed you all thought the same.
Doesn't everyone try to budget and live as cheaply as they can?

The rest of you should also have shown your cards.
You should have insisted that you wanted to invest more in luxurious holidays and not put away university funds.
Are you sure some of your group are not jealous?

Also your friends came from poorer backgrounds so were never experienced at splurging on anything. To live frugally was normal for them. And thus, nothing extraordinary needed to be divulged.
Possibly they spent less on alcohol, cars, take away food, clothing, hair dressers and all aspects of their budget and assumed you all penny pinched too.

The only thing that would annoy me would be the fact that on one occasion you all generously chipped in for a Rugby camp.
If that donation were to be repaid now, would you all become besties again? That could be something to discuss and a way to repair the friendship. Good luck to all the kids - hope they all stay friends.

They just say it how it is shall we. Your all consumed by jealousy that they've pulled this off.

Yes the rugby club subsidy was wrong when they chose that path for themselves but my gosh the rest of it is completely none of all your lots business! The fact that you all went on cheaper holidays was a choice you all made. If it didn't suit or was such a bother you could've and should've gone without them, if they couldn't go on the more expensive holidays.

Your friendship groups sounds utterly awful if this is what they'd cut them off for. Who needs enemies when you got friends like this.

Maybe they have been 'poor' because they've been putting away money for their DC?

I think it's actually quite clever they did this, although not fair that they have imposed these things on you and could have been more transparent. The rugby camp thing would annoy me. It seems petty that this has caused such issues in your group though.

Of course not everyone tries to live as cheaply as they can. If they did 4-5 star hotels would go out of business, expensive cars would stop being manufactured because no one would be buying them etc.

You are friends with people because of their personality and what they bring to your life.

In this instance, OP is friends with these people because of what she believed to be their personality. Therein lies the rub.

These friends, who were presumably thought to be loyal, kind, reliable etc, have literally been deceiving OP and others for 18 years!

I'd wonder what else they've been lying about.

I wonder - did they explicitly state they could not afford the meals, the more expensive holidays etc or did they just decline and the rest of the group assumed that they could not afford it?

Or have they mentioned it being a tight time financially about 15 years ago and the group has assumed that this is their ‘station’ ever since? I think it’s one of those things - everyone discusses money but there’s rarely numbers involved.

I remember a really dear friend discussing how she was concerned how her family would manage on her husband’s reduced wages because he’d gotten a job with a better work life balance and then when she said his new salary it was almost 6 months of my wages. But to her it was reduced and we just talked about having to budget and she’s still a very dear friend.

As for savings and pensions etc. does anyone really discuss the nitty gritty details? I know it’s never been something I’ve discussed outside ‘my budget for the wedding/ holiday/ outfit/ whatever is X’. So unless your group does - have they been hiding it or just not discussing it like everyone else? Do they know how much you earn, your other friends and what the family trust/ inheritance will pay out?

Personally I’m getting vibes - although not so much from you personally- that part of the anger is because the group was able to be magnanimous and go on these cheaper holidays etc for the benefit of the ‘poorer’ family and now that you find that it wasn’t necessary, there’s anger because they didn’t ’deserve’ it which doesn’t say it was a particularly healthy dynamic in the first place.

Especially as you repeatedly point out that the couple are good friends and fun to be around.

If there’s family trusts and known inheritances coming through the other families then it doesn’t sound you guys are the average families. Perhaps they decided they wanted to save and invest more seeing how other families with those resources are able to live?

I do think it’s unfair to blame them for the injuries one of the children received. It was an accident and the only person to blame is whoever was in charge of maintenance.

Either way, it will either blow over or it won’t but personally I’d take your cue from the kids.

The only things I would have an issue with was them taking money for their sons rugby camp which was really cheeky and being a bit more transparent if they have been laying it on thick about being hard up. Other than that it's no-one's business and technically they were having to be careful because they have been putting away substantial sums. I don't think it's fair to blame them for someone getting injured on holiday.

It's a shame for the children that this has happened. Are the ones most indignant actually a bit jealous?

As Dave Ramsey says, live like no one else so you can live like no one else. And that appears to be what they have done. They had other priorities and lavish holidays wasn’t one of them. They didn’t owe anyone an explanation about why certain things “were out of their budget.” They just were. Others won’t agree with them because it’s not how they have chosen to live. Oh well.

For me the way forward would be whoever is best positioned to do so telling the couple gently that people are angry and explaining why - from your position it feels like they've been lying, even if they didn't deliberately do that, the rest of you have compromised because you weren't aware they had the choice to do more expensive things because you thought they couldn't not because they were choosing not to etc. They need to apologise to the group to set things right. Include how important they are to the group etc etc. Hopefully this is a shock reaction and people will calm down if the couple apologises.

They accepted the rugby camp and said "couldn't afford" instead of "above our budget" but apart from that they've done nothing wrong and everyone liked the holidays and hanging out enough to include them for 18 years mind.

Mind, this is us. Only exception is that we are open about it if asked and this has alienated quite a few people from us.